Maximum Effective Range

[Lemonaid]

Way back in the early 1990's one of the things we were supposed to know was the maximum effective range of our weapon. If I remember it was something like 550 yards for the m-16.
What would you consider the maximum effective range of a 16 inch barreled Grendel to be.
What are the tests to find out what it is?
Thanks in advance!

[rabiddawg]

See the link in my signature line. I got tired of searching for it each time this comes up.

Not a 16 but I think most that will post in this thread will sell the cartridge short.

The shooter and his position will limit the range more than the Grendel will.

[Lemonaid]

rabiddawg, I am seeking what range the military would say the maximum effective range of the Grendel would be if it was a standard issued weapon. For some reasons (testing I would guess) they landed on 550 yards for the M-16. Ethical Hunting range would be a different number.
What is the test criteria to determine Maximum Effective Range? (not a personal number an expert could make but what an average Joe should be able to do) There is a range where the bullet in no longer considered lethal combined with lack of hit probability.
My ignorant wild guess is between 700 and 800 yards for the Grendel using Hornady black as the standard load.

[LR1955]

rabiddawg, I am seeking what range the military would say the maximum effective range of the Grendel would be if it was a standard issued weapon. For some reasons (testing I would guess) they landed on 550 yards for the M-16. Ethical Hunting range would be a different number.
What is the test criteria to determine Maximum Effective Range? (not a personal number an expert could make but what an average Joe should be able to do) There is a range where the bullet in no longer considered lethal combined with lack of hit probability.
My ignorant wild guess is between 700 and 800 yards for the Grendel using Hornady black as the standard load.

LMA:

I believe the Max Effective Range is that range where an average trained Soldier has a 50% chance of a hit.

I do not see how a average trained Soldier firing a service grade Grendel using issued sights and service grade ball ammunition would be any different than one shooting a issued M-4 with issued ball ammo. In fact, probably worse even if the ammo and carbine were the same in capabilities. The Grendel has more recoil.

You can figure it out based on your requirements and your ammo and carbine or rifle pretty easily. Make a silhouette of the target full size and put it up at 500 yards. Put on what ever gear you wear and take up a prone off of bags or your bipod and shoot ten shots slow fire -- ten minute time frame. Then count holes. If more than five, put the target at 600 and shoot. And so on.

LR55

[Lemonaid]

Interesting posts! Not what I expected but that's why I asked, to gain others perspective and benefit from their expertise.
So, if you were given the choice would you have your "team" armed with Ar-15s or a Grendels? and would you rather the opposing force have Ar's or Grendel's?

[Bigs28]

My ar is a grendel. What kind of grendel are you talking about?

[JASmith]

Good reasons exist for our nation's inability to bump the 5.56 NATO cartridge as our primary infantry weapon cartridge.

There have been several lengthy threads discussing the Grendel vs other cartridges as an infantry weapon and they largely answer your question.

Find them, read through them, and then decide which -- number of rounds that one can carry, maximum range, impact energy per round, or other, best suits your postulated scenario.

After that, some of us would be very interested in your hopefully better informed understanding, your choice, and the logic supporting that choice,

[Lemonaid]

My ar is a grendel. What kind of grendel are you talking about?

Ha! good one, you got me. How about .223 Ar or 6.5 Grendel Ar. I didn't want to compare a semi auto only to a full auto or select fire weapon. My mind was back in the 90's when about the only Ar's were in .223.

[Lemonaid]

Good reasons exist for our nation's inability to bump the 5.56 NATO cartridge as our primary infantry weapon cartridge.

There have been several lengthy threads discussing the Grendel vs other cartridges as an infantry weapon and they largely answer your question.

Find them, read through them, and then decide which -- number of rounds that one can carry, maximum range, impact energy per round, or other, best suits your postulated scenario.

After that, some of us would be very interested in your hopefully better informed understanding, your choice, and the logic supporting that choice,

Why would anyone be interested in my opinion? I am a complete tyro about grendel, actual combat, current doctrine, etc., etc.
I am here to learn from the shoulders of giants!
I have read a fair amount about this in the forum and am thankful to all taking the time and effort to share.

The central question I am confused about now is if the Grendel has equal or less Maximum effective range than a AR in .223 Why have a grendel?

[lazyengineer]

For hunting? I run in the 800-1000 ft-lb crowd, mostly because I don't have any data to suggest differently. For Grendel, that's the 400-500 yard range, depending on BBL and load.

For military effective range, any shot with a reasonable chance of hit with an expert rifleman, with a bullet that is going to hit hard enough to penetrate into organs, is within max effective range. Just pulling a value out of the air, I'd say 100 yards before subsonic transition then, which with the Grendel is in the 800-1000 yard range. It has longer legs than the 5.56 or the .308; in almost any BBL length. It's one of the reasons I'm so impressed with this round - the engineering is a true optimization of size, power, range, and capability.

[LR1955]

Why would anyone be interested in my opinion? I am a complete tyro about grendel, actual combat, current doctrine, etc., etc.
I am here to learn from the shoulders of giants!
I have read a fair amount about this in the forum and am thankful to all taking the time and effort to share.

The central question I am confused about now is if the Grendel has equal or less Maximum effective range than a AR in .223 Why have a grendel?

LA:

It isn't a .223. It is a 5.56. Major difference in bullet weight and length between the two. The 5.56 is way more lethal in its current design.

And, no one knows the capabilities of a service grade Grendel firing service grade Ball ammo because neither exist.

Do read some of the other threads that cover this subject. They are all pretty good discussions.

LR55

[Texas]

Do you mean Max effective range or relative stopping power calculation?
M1 carbine max effective range 300 yards
M1 Garand max effective range 400 yards
M14 max effective range 500 yards
M16 max effective range 600 yards
At 600 yards the M1 has the highest relative stopping power.

[Lemonaid]

Thanks all!
Can close out this thread.

[SHORT-N-SASSY]

< http://bullpupforum.com/index.php?to...22280#msg22280 >

[LR1955]

Do you mean Max effective range or relative stopping power calculation?
M1 carbine max effective range 300 yards
M1 Garand max effective range 400 yards
M14 max effective range 500 yards
M16 max effective range 600 yards
At 600 yards the M1 has the highest relative stopping power.

Tex:

Guess you never shot a lot of issued M-2 Ball from service grade Garands?

The reason why M-80 came into existence was because of the inefficiencies of the flat base M-2 Ball.

Can you link me to the source you may be using for these comparisons?

Thanks!

LR55