.338 mmg

[Tony Williams]

IIRC, the .338 MMG mechanism is derived from that of the XM307.

As I understand it, the XM307 is recoil-operated but the LWMMG is a hybrid type: basically gas-operated but with the XM307's recoil-smoothing mechanism.

[BluntForceTrauma]

Noted in Steimke's report: "REQUIRES NEW TECHNOLOGY FOR A WEAPON/AMMO WITH M2 RANGE AT M240B WEIGHT." From this we can see that there are those who correctly understand the problem, and will perhaps also see a need for 7.62 NATO range at M4/M16 weight. The 65G is almost exactly analogous to this new .338 LWMMG.

John

[Tony Williams]

NDIA is certainly a good place to make the armed forces aware of what you have to offer. I understand that AUSA is too, although I've not been to that one.

[Gunwriter]

Question

How much of a difference in practical performance do you think there would be at inside 2,000 yards between
this system and an Old School Vickers with .303 MkVIIIZ or a French Hotchkiss with 8mm Lebel Balle N 232 grain MG ammo?
Both of these systems were habitually used for indirect fire out to 4,000 yards during WWI.
During the siege on Fort Vaux French MG crews cut down German reinforcements at 2-3,000 yards

No doubt the .338 cartridge will offer a huge step up. However to be fair the M240 is handicapped by a
rather mundane rifle load, M80 ball. Think how much performance could be improved by switching to
a 200 grain FMJ with a BC in the .530 range. Basically what the US Army did after WWI with the switch
from 150 grain M1906 ball to 173 grain M1 ball. The 173 grain M1 ball load was developed specifically to
address the poor reach of the M1906 150 grain .30-'06 load compared to the French 8mm Lebel Balle D
load US troops were initially issued for MG use. The Balle D load had over 1,000 yards of greater reach
when fired from MGs......

thoughts?

[Tony Williams]

The long-range indirect fire from MGs in WW1 was used against area targets - wind drift had a huge effect on the trajectory at such ranges. The emphasis nowadays is more on engaging point targets.

Others on this forum are much better at crunching the numbers than I am, but I suspect that the .338 Norma firing 300 grain bullets (MatchKing in initial testing, but ball, AP and tracer being developed) at 2,650 fps from the 24 inch MG barrel will offer trajectory/wind drift performance at 1500m much closer to the .50 BMG than the 7.62mm ball.

The 7.62mm can no doubt be improved with a better bullet, although cartridge OAL restrictions mean that longer bullets will eat more and more into the case capacity, reducing the propellant load and velocity disproportionately. This problem would be exacerbated by the extra length of the lead-free bullets the army currently favours.

[LRRPF52]

A 300gr .338 at 2650fps is no joke. I have friends that have been chasing, and achieving the 1st-round hit feat at 2000m with them out of TRG's. You will not be able to mass-produce Scenars and SMK's for belt-fed weapons at a reasonable cost, however. That said, you'll still have a very high-BC projectile, even if it is an FMJ with a boat tail, and a football shaped ogive if it weighs 300gr in .338 caliber.

The 250gr .338 Lock-base from Lapua is an impressive bullet, as I've literally seen guys shoot heart-sized groups with it at 1400m in the blowing, heavy rain from a TRG.

[Steyr94]

Imagine a scaled vulcan in .338 mounted in place of an M240 on a humvee

[JASmith]

That would be spectacular!

Lobby Dillon Aero to build one!

[BluntForceTrauma]

Eight years ago, already, since this thread was started? Time flies and military procurement crawls!

[stanc]