Army Carbine Program

[Michael]

[cory]

That's a waste, but foreign aid isn't. WTH!

Granted clear requirements should have and need to be established.

[Guardsman26]

The sooner the IC competition dies, the better it will be for the warfighter. Hopefully, stopping it will pave the way for a new weapon based on the 6.5 mm Grendel or something similar. My ideal weapon would be a 6.5 mm Heckler & Koch G36 but with an aluminium and steel receiver instead of polymer.

[LRRPF52]

G36 sight above bore height is a deal-breaker for me. Ergo's suck a la HK, who refuses to listen to guys who have decades of high quality saturation experience as subject matter experts on infantry small arms. HK can't be told, put simply. Their designs are uberperfekt in their minds, and they don't really have many original designs to speak of, considering that their most popular lines are from pre-War and WWII German companies that had a few engineers escape to Spain (CETME), and Eugene Stoner.

Halbrooks said the Pentagon and the Army need to re-evaluate the carbine replacement program because they’re seeking to develop the new rifle at the same time as the service is modifying the current M4 weapon.

“It’s unclear what additional capability this new rifle will have over the modified M4,” according to the report. “Key performance parameters such as accuracy, reliability and lethality have not been established.”

This is what stuck out the most for me. There are no key performance parameters established. How do you move forward with that?

[Michael]

LRRPF52 hit on a couple of things that stuck in my mind. I have no idea what the specs were, or what weaknesses were identified with the current weapons systems. I could hazard a guess, but it would be just that – a guess. I still contended that we are rapidly approaching the technological limits of the metallic case cartridge. The laws of physics – and I am not a physicist – seem to be running against it. Caseless ammo, polymer cartridges or even energy/rail type weapons need to be further developed IMHO if you really want to advance to the next level in small arms. The metallic case cartridge and smokeless powder are both essentially tech well over a hundred years old. The telegraph was the only means of long range, instantaneous communication and the only way to fly was with hot air when both were introduced.

Reality is in peace time the big ticket items are more palatable by congress for funding than the stuff the knuckle dragging mouth breathers need. For the cost of less than ten F-35 JSF (200-600 million each depending on which source you cite) this program could have been funded. Now, would it have been wasted money? From our government? You be the judge.

[bwaites]

G36 sight above bore height is a deal-breaker for me. Ergo's suck a la HK, who refuses to listen to guys who have decades of high quality saturation experience as subject matter experts on infantry small arms. HK can't be told, put simply. Their designs are uberperfekt in their minds, and they don't really have many original designs to speak of, considering that their most popular lines are from pre-War and WWII German companies that had a few engineers escape to Spain (CETME), and Eugene Stoner.



This is what stuck out the most for me. There are no key performance parameters established. How do you move forward with that?

The mindset of some German/Swiss/Austrian companies really seems to revert to the whole "Aryan Superiority" thought process.

A very good friend was on the BMW Board of Directors. He had to fly over to Germany several times yearly. They always arranged for his travel far in advance, and they always paid about 3 times what he would have paid if he had purchased the ticket. He pointed that out to them, and asked that he be allowed to buy his own ticket and have it reimbursed. They very gently but firmly told him that his travel arrangements would be done as they were done for all directors. He pointed out that it was costing the company 3 times what it should. They replied that they would re-evaluate when the time came to renew the travel arrangements contract with their travel agency. Nothing ever changed. It drove him nuts, because he is an extremely conservative financial manager, even watching someone else waste other peoples money drives him crazy!

But that seems to be the mind set of many of those otherwise well run companies.

[stanc]

FYI: http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.o...lfCentury.aspx

http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/archive/2013/march/Pages/

[LRRPF52]

The SCAR trashes optics, and most SF units have sent them back-don't want them. It also isn't any more reliable than an M4 according to the guys that use them in high volume.

The HK416 is way front heavy, had a stupid magazine well that prevents use with other mags that are common across the system, and isn't any more reliable.

The ACR is way front heavy.

I like the Colt Monolithic Carbine-just wish it had a longer handguard. There isn't really anything wrong with the M4 as a standard issue service carbine. They need to standardize the Designated Marksman Rifle and work on a new viable, lightweight LMG that doesn't suck like the SAW, that is chambered in something that cuts the mustard. When you see SF guys preferring the M4 over a lot of the new 5.56 systems, but are needing something with more power/energy at distance, but is lightweight without being an optics-destroyer (SCAR-H), there is a void, and that void is the DM Carbine system.

[montana]

The mindset of some German/Swiss/Austrian companies really seems to revert to the whole "Aryan Superiority" thought process.

A very good friend was on the BMW Board of Directors. He had to fly over to Germany several times yearly. They always arranged for his travel far in advance, and they always paid about 3 times what he would have paid if he had purchased the ticket. He pointed that out to them, and asked that he be allowed to buy his own ticket and have it reimbursed. They very gently but firmly told him that his travel arrangements would be done as they were done for all directors. He pointed out that it was costing the company 3 times what it should. They replied that they would re-evaluate when the time came to renew the travel arrangements contract with their travel agency. Nothing ever changed. It drove him nuts, because he is an extremely conservative financial manager, even watching someone else waste other peoples money drives him crazy!

But that seems to be the mind set of many of those otherwise well run companies.

Bill I' come from German decent and worked with my family of Deutschman for many years, and to call Germans stubborn, head strong and difficult to work with is a complete unabashed truth. I have to laugh at your comments because of all the memory's of my father and 2 brothers trying to accomplish the most mundane project which took longer to argue over than to accomplish.I have to agree with your assessment. :]