6.5 Grendel Armor Piercing ammunition data/info...

[fastpat]

I think the "poor man's" armor piercing projectiles are the 110 gr. boat tailed solids available from Barnes.

While I'd like a genuine AP load, or even bullets, these are the only ones in commercial production at this time as far as I know.

[student28]

LR 55
Very true. That sounds very correct. Reflecting back,,I never once had my weapon serviced while there.

[stanc]

If penetration is the purpose, these rounds should not be used in a CQB situation and collateral damage should not be an issue.

OTOH, these tungsten-core AP rounds would be ideal for hostage situations. See the "Moscow Incident" (begins at 0:57 in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QW57mVNNJM8 ).

[student28]

Lol, that's funny!!

[stanc]

I'm interested in any and all data (and PICS!!!)...

AA 125gr AP load at far right, below.

(I think it isn't pirating if you link to it. )

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=431&t=202148

[Tony Williams]

Is that 125 grain AP loading available from the factory? I can't find it listed on AA's website.

(Incidentally, I find it a bit irritating that their ammo list shows velocities as 50 yards rather than at the muzzle: it makes comparisons more difficult. Also, it would be helpful to specify the barrel length used.)

[stanc]

Is that 125 grain AP loading available from the factory? I can't find it listed on AA's website.

In the article, the only thing Fortier says is that "...for military/LE use [AA] developed a 125 grain AP load with a tungsten core."

Nor did Alexander comment on availability in his post in this thread: http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showt...full=1#post657

Perhaps it was just a developmental load that didn't make it to production?

[bwaites]

It was a developmental load, specially produced only for testing. Very low volume.

[Variable]

I'd like to see it in volume. Particularly: A sizeable volume of it in my possession....

[bwaites]

I'd like to see it in volume. Particularly: A sizeable volume of it in my possession....

We all have dreams!

[Tony Williams]

Is that 125 grain AP loading available from the factory? I can't find it listed on AA's website.

(Incidentally, I find it a bit irritating that their ammo list shows velocities as 50 yards rather than at the muzzle: it makes comparisons more difficult. Also, it would be helpful to specify the barrel length used.)

I should perhaps explain that I was writing then as co-editor of Jane's Ammunition Handbook, responsible among other things for all small-arms ammo entries. I like to keep the data about new loadings up to date, and have a special interest in intermediate calibre rounds with military potential like this one. However, only quoting velocities at 50 yards makes the Grendel look bad compared with others who quote muzzle velocity.

[JASmith]

...only quoting velocities at 50 yards makes the Grendel look bad compared with others who quote muzzle velocity.

I hadn't picked up on the 50 yard measurement distance. I have, however, noticed that the 120 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip offering at Midway shows a muzzle velocity of 2376 ft/sec, corresponding to the 14.5" barrel length in the AA ballistics sheet I downloaded five minutes ago. It has been that way for TWO YEARS!

I understand that the industry standard for muzzle velocity is at the muzzle with a 24-inch barrel. The loss of 300 ft/sec compared to the Wolf offering, without explanation, is also disturbing...

[stanc]

I hadn't picked up on the 50 yard measurement distance. I have, however, noticed that the 120 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip offering at Midway shows a muzzle velocity of 2376 ft/sec, corresponding to the 14.5" barrel length in the AA ballistics sheet I downloaded five minutes ago. It has been that way for TWO YEARS!

I understand that the industry standard for muzzle velocity is at the muzzle with a 24-inch barrel. The loss of 300 ft/sec compared to the Wolf offering, without explanation, is also disturbing...

It looks as if (on Midway) MV of the Wolf 120gr MPT is from a 24" barrel.

AA shows the 120gr Nosler as 2355 fps @ 50 yards:

http://www.alexanderarms.com/item/12/14/65Grendel120gNoslerBallisticTipammunition.htm

That correlates to 2450 fps MV from a 16" barrel, as shown on the AA ballistics sheet you cited. MV from a 24" tube is listed as 2600 fps, which is comparable to the Wolf MPT @ 2610 fps.

[JASmith]

It looks as if (on Midway) MV of the Wolf 120gr MPT is from a 24" barrel.

AA shows the 120gr Nosler as 2355 fps @ 50 yards:

http://www.alexanderarms.com/item/12/14/65Grendel120gNoslerBallisticTipammunition.htm

That correlates to 2450 fps MV from a 16" barrel, as shown on the AA ballistics sheet you cited. MV from a 24" tube is listed as 2600 fps, which is comparable to the Wolf MPT @ 2610 fps.

...and the 2376 ft/sec in Midway is precisely the same as the listed velocity for the 14.5" barrel and no, I did not or could not find a mention of range for velocity measurement.

This all supports Tony's expression of concern.

I have the feeling that Bill Alexander and his marketing staff are unusually reticent to even approach overselling the Grendel. I think I can surmise a pragmatic motivation, but think the Grendel would be better marketed if the industry standard 24" barrel velocity computed at the muzzle were used in publications. There's ample opportunity to point out the effects of changed barrel length. I can't think of a good reason for reporting the 50 yard velocity.

Yes, folks will be disappointed when they discover that the 16" barrel velocity is a couple hundred ft/sec less. But publishing non-standard conditions for the velocity opens them up to a lot of confusion and the inevitable criticism that follows.

[Tony Williams]

Thanks gents.

IMO muzzle velocities of milspec ammo should be given from 20 inch and 14.5 inch barrels, as these are the two most likely lengths to be used in military weapons.