Who will ask to see the Form 1 or Form 4?

[HoustonHipster6.5]

To purchase a silencer, there really is no other choice than paying BATFE and getting a Form 4. However, many AR pistol owners are now considering registering as SBRs with a Form 1.

My question is: Who is going to ask me to show the Form 4 or Form 1?

If I show up at a public range with my AR Pistol is the owner going to scrutinize my stabilizing brace and call the fuzz on me?
Will there be random ATF agents stationed at ranges checking paperwork, like a game warden at the docks?
How likely am I to get away with putting a regular stock on my 12-inch Grendel and going on with my life without ever needing a Form 1?

Asking for a hypothetical friend.

Thanks.

[CJW]

[LRRPF52]

[LRRPF52]

[Happy2Shoot]

To purchase a silencer, there really is no other choice than paying BATFE and getting a Form 4. However, many AR pistol owners are now considering registering as SBRs with a Form 1.

My question is: Who is going to ask me to show the Form 4 or Form 1?

If I show up at a public range with my AR Pistol is the owner going to scrutinize my stabilizing brace and call the fuzz on me?
Will there be random ATF agents stationed at ranges checking paperwork, like a game warden at the docks?
How likely am I to get away with putting a regular stock on my 12-inch Grendel and going on with my life without ever needing a Form 1?

Asking for a hypothetical friend.

Thanks.

What state do you live in? NJ? Heck yeah. VA? Not likely. Also, don't risk getting in unbelievably big trouble over this stuff. Just get a brace or pay the $200.

[HKGuns]

To purchase a silencer, there really is no other choice than paying BATFE and getting a Form 4. However, many AR pistol owners are now considering registering as SBRs with a Form 1.

My question is: Who is going to ask me to show the Form 4 or Form 1?

If I show up at a public range with my AR Pistol is the owner going to scrutinize my stabilizing brace and call the fuzz on me?
Will there be random ATF agents stationed at ranges checking paperwork, like a game warden at the docks?
How likely am I to get away with putting a regular stock on my 12-inch Grendel and going on with my life without ever needing a Form 1?

Asking for a hypothetical friend.

Thanks.

What do you think those 87K IRS agents will be doing? They're going to be stationed at every shooting range to collect stamps and taxes.

[Sinclair]

What do you think those 87K IRS agents will be doing? They're going to be stationed at every shooting range to collect stamps and taxes.

Don't laugh, years ago I used to frequently attend events with a "buckskiner" theme. I was surprised at how many times there were IRS agents checking and collecting taxes from the venders. That was in the "old days" when the IRS was "short handed", what will it be like with an addition 87,000 agents, checking neighborhood yard sales? Big Brother is everywhere!

[LRRPF52]

What do you think those 87K IRS agents will be doing? They're going to be stationed at every shooting range to collect stamps and taxes.

[Happy2Shoot]

@HoustonHipster6.5

Feel free to get this tattoo. I hear there is a great tattoo parlor at 5825 North Sam Houston Pkwy W, Houston, TX 77086. Never been there myself, have you?

[Hansel&Grendel]

ATF is suggesting that it loses about $250 million per year in tax stamp revenue primarily over pistol-braced ARs for which people are not paying the $200 tax stamp under NFA. Yet, DOJ and ATF, pursuant to ATF Final Rule 2021R-08F (circulating on the Internet today) are prepared to waive the $200 tax stamp if one eforms registers a pistol-braced AR within 120 days presumably from this Monday. So, the motivation does not appear to be revenue based, butt rather registration based (which we all knew).

I, too, am not concerned with 87,000 IRS agents. There are plans to increase the Criminal Investigation Division of IRS to about 4,000 special agents who are armed; however, I very much doubt that they will be snooping around gun ranges, etc., to help enforce 2021R-08F out of fear of their presence not being taken to very kindly.

What is of some concern is that a commercial property realtor friend in Southwest Virginia received a flyer not long ago wherein ATF was soliciting real property managers with a commercial real estate background to manage federally owned or processed properties. Being a retired LE, I thought that this was to manage asset forfeitures by ATF to include real property seizures. Nope. The flyer was to manage ATF occupied office space within the Washington, D.C. Field Office (and I'm sure elsewhere throughout the country). Typically, such properties are managed and overseen by GSA. So, that tells me that the ATF solicitation of office space property managers is future planning where ATF's presence is to be vastly expanded.

Incidentally, I worked with old-school ATF Agents over the years. Their emphasis in the vast majority of cases was "G and G" (Gangs and Guns); not what we have going today.

[HoustonHipster6.5]

What state do you live in? NJ? Heck yeah. VA? Not likely. Also, don't risk getting in unbelievably big trouble over this stuff. Just get a brace or pay the $200.

Only now the brace is no good, either.

[HoustonHipster6.5]

ATF is suggesting that it loses about $250 million per year in tax stamp revenue primarily over pistol-braced ARs for which people are not paying the $200 tax stamp under NFA. Yet, DOJ and ATF, pursuant to ATF Final Rule 2021R-08F (circulating on the Internet today) are prepared to waive the $200 tax stamp if one eforms registers a pistol-braced AR within 120 days presumably from this Monday. So, the motivation does not appear to be revenue based, butt rather registration based (which we all knew).

If they are offering a "no-cost" eform, does it not make sense for me to register all of my lowers as SBRs in case I happen to attach a short upper? That's the beauty of the AR, mutiple calibers, multiple configurations, all on a common lower. Bases covered. What do you think?

[LRRPF52]

If they are offering a "no-cost" eform, does it not make sense for me to register all of my lowers as SBRs in case I happen to attach a short upper? That's the beauty of the AR, mutiple calibers, multiple configurations, all on a common lower. Bases covered. What do you think?

[lazyengineer]

If they are offering a "no-cost" eform, does it not make sense for me to register all of my lowers as SBRs in case I happen to attach a short upper? That's the beauty of the AR, mutiple calibers, multiple configurations, all on a common lower. Bases covered. What do you think?

Lots of passion on that one. There are two main basis for those who advise against:
1) It's a trap. Personally, I don't think it is, as the ATF has done this before without issue. I think motivation is they simply weren't enforcing NFA as written, and they are doing this to get back to doing so.
2) Solidarity. Sort of a Scabs at the Strike take, on doing anything the ATF wants. Which I kind of get, but not everybody is at a place in life where this is the hill they will die upon, nor in a setting so understanding. To OP's question, if you are going to public ranges - then yes, it's not unusual at all for some busybody to feel important and harrass or a range officer to over-fixate on percieved range liablities, and ask to see your license. If you refuse, you don't get to shoot.

If you do register, then sure, no reason not to just register as much as you can, since it can go into and out of NFA classification at your discretion. So even if it's registered as an SBR, if you put a 16" upper on it, it no longer is, and you can cross state lines, sell it, etc, just like a regular AR (unlike machine guns). You can even ask it to be officically stricken from NFA list by a letter, at any time as well.

HOWEVER, research and have care before piling your AR rifles in on this. The Amnesty is for Arm Braces applied to "handgun" pistols with BBL<16". And only that. If your lower started life as a RIFLE, rather than as a Pistol or Other, then when ATF runs your application serial number - you will now have a signed legal document basically saying you converted a Rifle into an SBR, which is not protected by this amnesty. They might grant it, they might just deny and forget about, or they might chose to give you grief; I really don't know. My guess is they'lll just deny it with instruction to turn that one back into a >16" rifle, but I don't know - not worth it to save $200 for a pile-on SBR stamp.

[HoustonHipster6.5]

Lots of passion on that one. There are two main basis for those who advise against:
1) It's a trap. Personally, I don't think it is, as the ATF has done this before without issue. I think motivation is they simply weren't enforcing NFA as written, and they are doing this to get back to doing so.
2) Solidarity. Sort of a Scabs at the Strike take, on doing anything the ATF wants. Which I kind of get, but not everybody is at a place in life where this is the hill they will die upon, nor in a setting so understanding. To OP's question, if you are going to public ranges - then yes, it's not unusual at all for some busybody to feel important and harrass or a range officer to over-fixate on percieved range liablities, and ask to see your license. If you refuse, you don't get to shoot.

If you do register, then sure, no reason not to just register as much as you can, since it can go into and out of NFA classification at your discretion. So even if it's registered as an SBR, if you put a 16" upper on it, it no longer is, and you can cross state lines, sell it, etc, just like a regular AR (unlike machine guns). You can even ask it to be officically stricken from NFA list by a letter, at any time as well.

HOWEVER, research and have care before piling your AR rifles in on this. The Amnesty is for Arm Braces applied to "handgun" pistols with BBL<16". And only that. If your lower started life as a RIFLE, rather than as a Pistol or Other, then when ATF runs your application serial number - you will now have a signed legal document basically saying you converted a Rifle into an SBR, which is not protected by this amnesty. They might grant it, they might just deny and forget about it, or they might choose to give you grief; I really don't know. My guess is they'll just deny it with instruction to turn that one back into a >16" rifle, but I don't know - not worth it to save $200 for a pile-on SBR stamp.

Great response that characterizes the range of feelings over the issue. I fall into the category of not wanting to go to jail or financial ruin just for shooting my shorty. The goal is the least amount of grief from the government for the least amount of money.

With respect to the free stamp for pistol-braced lowers, I don't recall ever declaring what I was going to build with my stripped lower. If that's the case, does the BATFE still consider it a work in progress? Do I have the opportunity to write up a Form 1 declaring it an SBR? Same question for my currently unfinished stripped lowers.

If anyone has info regarding a good legal analyst on this issue, I'm all ears.


SIDEBAR: I have a new Acronym for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, Compliance Enforcement Services. B A T FECES. You're welcome!