Predator Tactical Long Range Challenge

[Mutt]

If someone could explain ....... I don't understand why a person would need so many mags??

[RStewart]

I have a friend who has shot a few of these and he said it is more about verifying the rifle is empty between parts of a stage while on the move. A bolt rifle can be easily checked by leaving the bolt open. When they get to the next part of the stage they just close the bolt on the next round, so they can use less mags by having higher capacity ones. A semi-auto has to drop the mag at the current part of the stage, lock the bolt back, move to the next part of the stage and load a new mag before firing. So, if there are 5 parts to the stage, you need 5 mags. Very time-consuming. When in Rome.......

[LRRPF52]

I've had to deal with the same safety considerations during sniper comps where one of the stages had 3 firing positions. The RO's had to confirm that the team's weapons were clear in-between each position, and it was a limited time event. I also had the rail-mounted brass-catcher on my AR10, making it even more fun. Even with the above limitations, I smoked all the bolt gun times by about 2-3 minutes. There were a lot of guys who were approaching the stage like a "take your time, precision rifle, we have all day" stage, and they didn't even clear the first position by the time the 5 minutes was up. I started shooting at the 3rd position at 2:36.

I approached the stage like a 3-gun stage, only with extended distances out to 450m with extreme wind conditions, from alternate positions (standing barricade, standing base of tower, & seated behind tree log). It was the funnest stage of the competition. I had dope on decals on the turrets, so dialing was extremely fast and straightforward. Almost every other team had far superior calibers than I did, with a semi-auto .308, but some forgot where their zeros were on the turrets, and others had issues that were painful to watch. I think a lot of guys figured they didn't need to dial dope for wind since the targets were closer than 600m or 700m, but the wind was really bad, as the range was on the coastal beach. The organizers also placed the targets among beach vegetation, so you couldn't see your impact register for corrections, and it was overcast the whole match, so trace was rarely seen, especially at closer distances. That's one of the main reasons why I like field stages, totally distant from a pristine flat-range environment (where you can insulate your equipment and methods from nature and Mr. Murphy).

With an auto-loader in real-world or competition, you need to really become proficient with clearing the weapon quickly, as well as dealing with malf's. As soon as you encounter a malf, diagnose, and perform immediate or remedial action. That GAP AR10 ran like a champ for me throughout FinnSniper 2008-zero issues. Last year, I scooped up a ton of sand with one of my 7.62 Pmags, even though I kept the protective covers on them in the pouches. It screwed my .260 AR10 up bigtime for our final stage with that sand. A lot of bolt guns had problems in that deep, beach sand as well. The thing with bolt gun malfs is that the action is open and accessible, so you can easily clear them usually with your fingers. You can't reach into most auto-loaders, especially the AR.

I prefer competitions where the RO's have already vetted the participants for big boy rules, and hot weapons rule the road, but you simply can't do that with a lot of unknown shooters. There are so many shooters who have not learned proper safety, and they don't think twice about sweeping you with their muzzle, or even keeping a muzzle trained on you inadvertently. I have 4 extra holes in my body as a result of such negligence, and I was already anal about muzzle awareness before that incident. I turn into a skunk real quick if I see some safety violations like that.

Once I vet shooters who prove they can maintain the safety circle, trigger finger discipline, selector discipline, and such, I don't care what direction they are facing on the range. I do totally understand and support organizers or trainers in whatever safety protocols they have, since it's their way or the highway, and I won't let that stop me from gaining added experience in employing my tools in different or challenging scenarios. Let us know how the match goes...

[RStewart]

There are so many shooters who have not learned proper safety, and they don't think twice about sweeping you with their muzzle, or even keeping a muzzle trained on you inadvertently.

I do totally understand and support organizers or trainers in whatever safety protocols they have, since it's their way or the highway, and I won't let that stop me from gaining added experience in employing my tools in different or challenging scenarios.

I think that is what may be driving this more than anything. I have not given up on the semi, but will wait until I get more info before deciding. The greatest day on a range or in a competition can be ruined by a lapse in safety protocols.

[YutYut]

We qualifed for table 2 last week at the range and this boot pfc kept slamming the bottom of the mag when we got to thr speed reload portion. He would double feed everytime and not know what to do so he would swing around ask for help WITH HIS WEAPON ON FIRE TRIGGER ON THE FINGER still carried at the ready. I couldnt believe it. He was failed after an initial warning.
Ive never seen or been a part of a safety violation that leads to someone leaving with holes nor do i ever want to be.

The rifle ranch is only about a 2 hour drive from where i live. Its gonna be a cold one. Based off the last few years- low of 30 high of 60. We usually dont get moisture until late dec but then again tx is the most bi polar state i have ever lived in. gpod luck in the match. I wish it was open to the public though.

[sititunga]

I had originally planned to see how the Grendel would do but they are making it so arduous to shoot a semi (I would need to have about 20 mags), I'm going to go with a 700 LTR in .308.
Sorry guys, really wanted to have some fun with the G.
1100 yards is longest distance. Most are going to be closer in.

What load were you planning to use? I've been finding that the 108 Lapua which I'm pushing at 2730 fps starts to run out of puff at about 1050 in colder weather. What load are you planning to use in your LTR? You're going to have to choose the right bullet and push it very hard out of a 20 inch barrel in order to be effective at anywhere near 1000 yds.

[oxn316]

What load were you planning to use? I've been finding that the 108 Lapua which I'm pushing at 2730 fps starts to run out of puff at about 1050 in colder weather. What load are you planning to use in your LTR? You're going to have to choose the right bullet and push it very hard out of a 20 inch barrel in order to be effective at anywhere near 1000 yds.

i was hitting a 12"x 12"target at 1200 yards with the factory 123 amax. 1100 with a hand load should not be a problem.

[sititunga]

Was this during the summer? I think as the colder weather creeps in performance falls off at that distance.

[oxn316]

Was this during the summer? I think as the colder weather creeps in performance falls off at that distance.

no it was last week, temp were around 55-60 degrees.

[sititunga]

no it was last week, temp were around 55-60 degrees.

Once you get down below 50 in my experience you see a big drop off. I was shooting a match at the weekend and found that I was 3 MOA below my summer impact points between 600 and 1000 yds. I just didn't think that temperature was going to have such a huge impact on my dope. Conversely if you compare the 6mm AR Turbo 40 Improved, a Grendel wildcat, and run the numbers it's way more effective. You can run a 6mm Berger 108 gr bullet at slower speeds than the same weight 6.5mm Scenar and be supersonic further down range. The Turbo 40i is definitely the way to go if your looking to reliably engage 900 + yds targets across the temperature spectrum. The Grendel is great to about 900 but that's where it ends IMO.

[RStewart]

Well, the two-headed monster called work has reared it's ugly head, so I have had to withdraw from this one altogether.

[bwaites]

But what about my bet money?

[RStewart]

But what about my bet money?

Your check is in the mail!