500 Yard NRA F-Class

[65GbySeven]

There is a range about 30 minutes from the house that has NRA 500 Yard F Class matches the first Saturday of every month. I always had hunting rifles and have never built/owned a match rifle.

Two Questions:
1. Does anyone use 6.5 Grendel for 500ish yard matches?
2. What rifle would you build/buy to use 6.5 Grendel to compete in a F Class Match.

I realize these are broad open questions. I am looking for suggestions on rifle round combinations. Today, without a custom rifle, best I can come up with is the CZ MTR with a handload 108 or 123 Lapua Scenar.

All comments and opinions are appreciated.

[A5BLASTER]

If I was going to shoot that match this is what I would bring.

Cz varmint grendel in a bell and carlson stock
Running handloads of 123 eld-m's.

Basicly that's what I own and shot now as a bolt grendel.

Should be a thread somewheres on here about my rifle if you want to see what I'm talking about with the rifle.

I don't shoot competition, so that's my best advice.

[Lemonaid]

Not an exact match but at 600 yards and also a good read. http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showt...lts-(big-post)

[lazyengineer]

I posted a thread about using it at NRA 600 Yard MidRange. You dont have to compete F-Class, you can enter it as AR-Tactical class (new) and shoot from a standard bipod.

[ricsmall]

[Klem]

65,

I competed in 1000yd F-Class for a decade.

I would go along and have a look and introduce yourself before shelling out a cent. Watch them shoot a match see if they are people you want to get involved with. They should give you a shot of one of their guns unless there is something wrong with them. Check out the level of competition by the kit they have and the way they interact.

F-Class is not something you buy gear for and then decide you don't like it three months later. Not because it is expensive (which it is) but it's too specific to use for much else. If they are competitive then Grendel will not be a calibre they use. It will all be larger 6.5 calibres. Even in a heavier stock with a decent rest and scope your Grendel will only be equal on a windless or low wind day. As soon as that wind picks up you will be on the bottom of the leader board, unless you are a wind whisperer and there are plenty of indicators (flags, spinners, trees, grass) and it is visible - meaning there are no invisible vortices or spoils. The parameters of F-Class are that you handicap yourself by choosing such a slow calibre and nothing else you surround it with: best scope, rest, stock will make up for the way the wind pushes around the bullet on the way to the target.

Like I say, go down and have a look and a chat with these guys. Ask about their gear; it will likely be super heavy barrels, parallel stocks and high magnification scopes. Often the winner is decided before the first round is shot by how much money is spent on gear.

[65GbySeven]

65,

I competed in 1000yd F-Class for a decade.

I would go along and have a look and introduce yourself before shelling out a cent. Watch them shoot a match see if they are people you want to get involved with. They should give you a shot of one of their guns unless there is something wrong with them. Check out the level of competition by the kit they have and the way they interact.

F-Class is not something you buy gear for and then decide you don't like it three months later. Not because it is expensive (which it is) but it's too specific to use for much else. If they are competitive then Grendel will not be a calibre they use. It will all be larger 6.5 calibres. Even in a heavier stock with a decent rest and scope your Grendel will only be equal on a windless or low wind day. As soon as that wind picks up you will be on the bottom of the leader board, unless you are a wind whisperer and there are plenty of indicators (flags, spinners, trees, grass) and it is visible - meaning there are no invisible vortices or spoils. The parameters of F-Class are that you handicap yourself by choosing such a slow calibre and nothing else you surround it with: best scope, rest, stock will make up for the way the wind pushes around the bullet on the way to the target.

Like I say, go down and have a look and a chat with these guys. Ask about their gear; it will likely be super heavy barrels, parallel stocks and high magnification scopes. Often the winner is decided before the first round is shot by how much money is spent on gear.

Thanks Klem, Scheduled to do that once they open back up due to pandemic. My biggest concern with competing with this group is the scores I am seeing. I am extremely competitive and most are using, to your point, .308, 6.5 large or magnum calibers.

A match Grendel Rifle is something I want to buy/build for my own "fun" but though about competing with it as well.

[65GbySeven]

PF and Howa new barrel are good options. Thank you.

[65GbySeven]

I posted a thread about using it at NRA 600 Yard MidRange. You dont have to compete F-Class, you can enter it as AR-Tactical class (new) and shoot from a standard bipod.

Actually read your post last night that Lemonaid referenced above. Very informative and educational.

[65GbySeven]

If I was going to shoot that match this is what I would bring.

Cz varmint grendel in a bell and carlson stock
Running handloads of 123 eld-m's.

Basicly that's what I own and shot now as a bolt grendel.

Should be a thread somewheres on here about my rifle if you want to see what I'm talking about with the rifle.

I don't shoot competition, so that's my best advice.

Thanks for your perspective. I haven't tried reloading 123 ELD-M's as of yet as I mainly started with hunting and plinking loads.

[65GbySeven]

65,

I competed in 1000yd F-Class for a decade.

I would go along and have a look and introduce yourself before shelling out a cent. Watch them shoot a match see if they are people you want to get involved with. They should give you a shot of one of their guns unless there is something wrong with them. Check out the level of competition by the kit they have and the way they interact.

F-Class is not something you buy gear for and then decide you don't like it three months later. Not because it is expensive (which it is) but it's too specific to use for much else. If they are competitive then Grendel will not be a calibre they use. It will all be larger 6.5 calibres. Even in a heavier stock with a decent rest and scope your Grendel will only be equal on a windless or low wind day. As soon as that wind picks up you will be on the bottom of the leader board, unless you are a wind whisperer and there are plenty of indicators (flags, spinners, trees, grass) and it is visible - meaning there are no invisible vortices or spoils. The parameters of F-Class are that you handicap yourself by choosing such a slow calibre and nothing else you surround it with: best scope, rest, stock will make up for the way the wind pushes around the bullet on the way to the target.

Like I say, go down and have a look and a chat with these guys. Ask about their gear; it will likely be super heavy barrels, parallel stocks and high magnification scopes. Often the winner is decided before the first round is shot by how much money is spent on gear.

Klem,

Here are the list of results from few matches.

http://silhouette-texas.us/fclassresults.htm

[Klem]

Klem,

Here are the list of results from few matches.

http://silhouette-texas.us/fclassresults.htm

65,
Looking at these guys and their calibres they are competitive and have all the right gear. Here's a Youtube video of them shooting;

Here's a screen grab at the mound


One of the award winners in the F Class photo album is Tom 'Speedy' Gonzales. Speedy is a well known gunsmith (SG Precision Rifles) and also runs the gunsmithing course in Trinidad at the State College. You will learn a lot just by turning up.

https://www.denverpost.com/2007/09/11/gunsmith-program-going-great-guns/

Their kit is as good as it gets; unfortunately that means any Grendel will not be competitive. Not to say you won't have fun so why not go along and introduce yourself.

[65GbySeven]

65,
Looking at these guys and their calibres they are competitive and have all the right gear. Here's a Youtube video of them shooting;

Here's a screen grab at the mound
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One of the award winners in the F Class photo album is Tom 'Speedy' Gonzales. Speedy is a well known gunsmith (SG Precision Rifles) and also runs the gunsmithing course in Trinidad at the State College. You will learn a lot just by turning up.

https://www.denverpost.com/2007/09/11/gunsmith-program-going-great-guns/

Their kit is as good as it gets; unfortunately that means any Grendel will not be competitive. Not to say you won't have fun so why not go along and introduce yourself.

So funny story, I played baseball at Trinidad State...and likely new 'Speedy'...if he was there in the mid '90s. Thanks for the information. I have spoken with a few of the members and all seem genuine and want to help folks that want to learn the F Class competition. It's also just a cost effective membership if I go once a month versus my public range and it's fees.

I've watched that video many many times. One thing I noticed was no one had fluted barrels. Read a few articles stating some don't believe the cooling effect is worth potentially creating a slight wobble if the fluting is not done perfectly.

I had thought of buying/building a 6 or 6.5 Creedmoor to be able to compete there...and you've confirmed that's what I would need at a minimum. I think I could develop the skill set as I've always been a good shooter. My father was a good marksman as well...maybe in the blood... who knows. He could spin the top off a 2 Liter with his Winchester pump 22LR.

[Klem]

There's no need for fluted barrels in F-Class and I have never seen one in my years of shooting this discipline. Fluting is extra cost and shaves weight off the gun. In some types of shooting it's good to have a light barrel or manipulate the weight of the gun within a max limit but in F-Class you want weight. Big thick barrels don't get hot enough to be concerned when you are shooting 12-round strings with lengthy breaks in between. Fluting looks more cool than it actually cools.

[LR1955]

65,

I competed in 1000yd F-Class for a decade.

I would go along and have a look and introduce yourself before shelling out a cent. Watch them shoot a match see if they are people you want to get involved with. They should give you a shot of one of their guns unless there is something wrong with them. Check out the level of competition by the kit they have and the way they interact.

F-Class is not something you buy gear for and then decide you don't like it three months later. Not because it is expensive (which it is) but it's too specific to use for much else. If they are competitive then Grendel will not be a calibre they use. It will all be larger 6.5 calibres. Even in a heavier stock with a decent rest and scope your Grendel will only be equal on a windless or low wind day. As soon as that wind picks up you will be on the bottom of the leader board, unless you are a wind whisperer and there are plenty of indicators (flags, spinners, trees, grass) and it is visible - meaning there are no invisible vortices or spoils. The parameters of F-Class are that you handicap yourself by choosing such a slow calibre and nothing else you surround it with: best scope, rest, stock will make up for the way the wind pushes around the bullet on the way to the target.

Like I say, go down and have a look and a chat with these guys. Ask about their gear; it will likely be super heavy barrels, parallel stocks and high magnification scopes. Often the winner is decided before the first round is shot by how much money is spent on gear.

65:

Klem beat me to it. This holds true for any of the shooting sports.

I may add that before delving into these things it pays to understand the categories very well since they put limits on your gear. Then look at the rules because those are what you will live with if you compete.

Look at the scores to get an idea of what is acceptable and understand that most likely you will be towards the bottom for a while before you get savvy to the nuances of the ranges and shooting skills needed to be competitive. If you shoot a bolt action Grendel, I think you will be competing in the open category and that means you will not place well because the cartridges the other competitors in your classification and category are using will probably be more suited to F Class than a Grendel.

I still shoot prone unsupported with iron sights and will say that my side of High Power is pretty much dead. For every one of me there are four F Class guys on the line and if anyone else is shooting unsupported, they probably have optics on the rifle. By far the majority of shooters shooting NRA High Power are F Class. I don't look down on them because F Class is not easy when you have winds and mirage. At least it is not easy to win when you have winds and mirage. And that assumes your rifle, ammo, optic, rests, and skills are good enough to win. It is its own entity with its own nuances and skill set.

One thing I do not advise is going cheap just to test the waters. I advise guys to look closely and decide if that is the sport for them and if so, get very specific and very good gear first and shoot competitively with it until they have hit their limits. By then they will probably know enough about the sport and the skills needed that they will know why they hit a limit and know what they need to buy or do to exceed that limit.

LR55