12+ moa! 😁

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  • Harpoon1
    Chieftain
    • Dec 2017
    • 1122

    12+ moa! 😁

    Finally got shoot a 12” PSA pistol upper couple of days ago. Didn’t bother even bore sighting it, SFP scope, just hit the range and let her rip with some American Gunner, like I’ve done dozens of times before. Picked out a leaf up on the bank behind the 100 yard backers. Got the splash off 2 or 3 shots, win big, coarse corrections , and I felt confident enough to put it on paper. 2 more shots at the bull, with more large “intuitive” handfuls of corrections, then another small one, next shot split the X. Done. Or so I thought. ��

    Next shot was 3” low, 6 o’clock. Ok, well, it’s just settling in some. Let’s bang off a few more shots, see what happens. Now 4” high 10 o’clock. Then 5” low low right, then 10” left...........holy cow, getting worse. So, I do a “what’s loose check”, scope is good, hand guard not touching anything. Flashhider looks, feels fine. Barrel seem ok, hmm. Few more shots, just as bad if not worse. That’s enough.

    So tore the handguard off this afternoon and gave it a once over, expecting, hoping, to find something obviously out place, loose. Nothing. Cleaned the barrel and it looks perfect too, just like every other functioning gun I have. Everything is snug, tight, in place, where it should be. I’ll probably take the barrel off and lap the upper, just for. laughs and see what happens but, I’m at a loss for what else to look for or do?

    I get, its just a bargain PSA upper. I’ve got a half dozen of them already. Some of them are ok, one is outrageously consistent with almost any ammo, the rest are decent with specific ammo. But this one, good lord, I have never seen or had anything as bad as this one before. Barrel says “6.5 Grendel 1/8” so, I don’t have any idea where they got it from. I know They get some from FN, I’ve got a couple of those but they’re usually the higher end for them, and priced accordingly.

    Already have another pistol, with BA upper that shoots reasonably well. I’ve got two other new 16” barrels that on standby here. So I’m inclined to take it apart, lap it, make sure nothing else is off with the barrel nut/upper interface and see what happens. Anything else I should look for, mayb try, or, with something this bad, erratic, just cut my losses, switch barrels and move on? ��

    Edited: Didn’t think of it at the time but, I neglected to check any of the cases for signs of over pressure, so, I suppose that one place to look and check the headspace.
    Last edited by Harpoon1; 12-14-2018, 11:59 PM.
  • Mad Charlie
    Warrior
    • May 2017
    • 827

    #2
    How did the barrel extension fit in the upper receiver?

    Comment

    • LRRPF52
      Super Moderator
      • Sep 2014
      • 8613

      #3
      What scope? You never mentioned what scope you're using.
      NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

      CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

      6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

      www.AR15buildbox.com

      Comment

      • Harpoon1
        Chieftain
        • Dec 2017
        • 1122

        #4
        Originally posted by Mad Charlie View Post
        How did the barrel extension fit in the upper receiver?
        Haven’t taken the barrel nut off yet, everything looks square, flush, torqued.
        Last edited by Harpoon1; 12-15-2018, 01:31 AM.

        Comment

        • Harpoon1
          Chieftain
          • Dec 2017
          • 1122

          #5
          Originally posted by LRRPF52 View Post
          What scope? You never mentioned what scope you're using.
          Low end Athlon, the Talos 6-24x50 SFP in a American Defense Recon. I’m almost positive I swapped it out the next day and ran it on another gun. Gonna have to go sort through everything to confirm that to be sure though. Went to the range 3 days in a row with multiple different guns each day, and fore gotten which gun it’s on now. Good idea. ��

          Comment

          • VASCAR2
            Chieftain
            • Mar 2011
            • 6229

            #6
            Last edited by VASCAR2; 12-15-2018, 01:57 AM.

            Comment

            • Harpoon1
              Chieftain
              • Dec 2017
              • 1122

              #7
              Originally posted by VASCAR2 View Post
              If the barrel nut is tight the way your shots starting going all over I suspect an issue with the scope. I’ve had it happen a few times usually trying to sight in someone else rifle who didn’t tighten everything down. I was helping a Friend try to sight in a 12 gauge shotgun. Shots were going everywhere regardless how we tried to adjust it. Ended up being a bad scope.


              I’ve got a 12” Nitride PSA 6.5 Grendel pistol and it shoots brass cased ammo good and gets better the more I shoot it. Wolf steel case was like shotgun at 100 yards at first and last group I shot with Wolf was 3” at 100 yards. The last time out the brass cased ammo was 1”-1.5” at 100 with one four shot group about 3/4”. I put in a RRA NM trigger which really helped me over the EPT. I’m using a 1-6 Vortex Strike Eagle.
              That’s encouraging to hear that your PSA upper shoots that well. Maybe it is the scope. I’ll dig through my stuff and see what’s what and if any of it jogs my feeble memory. ��

              At least we got a good, logical, place to start.

              Thanks fellas.

              Comment

              • LRRPF52
                Super Moderator
                • Sep 2014
                • 8613

                #8
                Everything was solid, then something happened. Even with a barrel that has inclusions (imperfections that make it past the QC process and degrade accuracy noticeably), you aren't going to see 12" groups.

                Everything appears to still be solid with the upper.

                Something else loosened up.

                My bets are on the low price optic on a gas gun getting its gears beat asunder because it was never meant to take the multiple impulses of an AR15.

                There are no free lunches when it comes to optics. I've watched enough people make mistakes with low-end scopes to know never to do it myself, because the internals usually give out within the first 50rds.

                This isn't an issue of headspace, excess pressure, or anything with the upper (unless the barrel is wiggling around inside the upper with an out of tolerance extension tunnel and undersized barrel extension).
                Last edited by LRRPF52; 12-15-2018, 03:16 PM.
                NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

                CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

                6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

                www.AR15buildbox.com

                Comment

                • Harpoon1
                  Chieftain
                  • Dec 2017
                  • 1122

                  #9
                  Well, more data.

                  It’s possible the scope I thought was on there wasn’t. However, the alternative would then be a Sightron “springer” rated air rifle scope. So, a Grendel or any other AR doesn’t come close to the destructive power of a full size springer air rifle and it’s double recoil impulse. Think FAL on steroids!

                  Anyway. I put the Sightron back on air rifle this morning and it’s held zero, no problem. There’s still a slim chance that wasn’t the scope on there but, I’ll take a spare with me back to the range Monday see what happens.

                  Well, I’ve got a couple of US optics, S&B PM II, IOR Valdada Recon, Cronus BTR, and handful more in $1+K range, so it’s not like I don’t know the “value” of decent glass! The problem is, at least for me is, putting it on 20 different platforms. It’s just doesn’t make economic sense, to put tier one glass on everything. YMMV. ��. This Grendel is a bugdget build and at the moment not even in the rotation right now, so, I just slapped whatever I had laying around for quick initial trail run. It’ll get better glass, if and when it deserves it!

                  Good to know it’s not a headspace issue, that saves me some more time.

                  I’ll know more Monday when I get back to the range with a spare scope. Until then, thanks for the help.
                  Last edited by Harpoon1; 12-16-2018, 09:58 AM.

                  Comment

                  • Mad Charlie
                    Warrior
                    • May 2017
                    • 827

                    #10
                    Do you have any back up irons (plastics?) you could try?

                    My eyes won't let me shoot better than 3-4" at 100 with irons these days, but they sure helped me figure out a bad mount one time.

                    Comment

                    • Glockpride
                      Warrior
                      • Sep 2018
                      • 103

                      #11
                      Ammo. What ammo? I see no mention of that.

                      Comment

                      • A5BLASTER
                        Chieftain
                        • Mar 2015
                        • 6192

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Glockpride View Post
                        Ammo. What ammo? I see no mention of that.
                        Agreed. Was this brass case match or hunting ammo or was it steel cased wolf?

                        Comment

                        • Harpoon1
                          Chieftain
                          • Dec 2017
                          • 1122

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Glockpride View Post
                          Ammo. What ammo? I see no mention of that.

                          From the second sentence in my OP.

                          Didn’t bother even bore sighting it, SFP scope, just hit the range and let her rip with some American Gunner.................
                          Last edited by Harpoon1; 12-16-2018, 01:23 AM.

                          Comment

                          • Harpoon1
                            Chieftain
                            • Dec 2017
                            • 1122

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Mad Charlie View Post
                            Do you have any back up irons (plastics?) you could try?

                            My eyes won't let me shoot better than 3-4" at 100 with irons these days, but they sure helped me figure out a bad mount one time.
                            Don’t know why I didnt think about the scope crapping out last time, I just checked mounts and everything was still tight. I’ll have plenty of back up scopes available. Almost everything I have is on QD mounts, so I can always swap one out with another gun.

                            Comment

                            • grayfox
                              Chieftain
                              • Jan 2017
                              • 4308

                              #15
                              IMO something with the scope/rings/mount is loose. And by loose I mean not torqued down. every little budge or nudge throws your zero off.
                              "Down the floor, out the door, Go Brandon Go!!!!!"

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