Do i need this???

[Grendel-Gene]

I have an Adams Arms piston kit on my AR, and even though i havent fired it much yet, so far it has worked perfectly.

However i have seen this add at POF for this improved cam with a wheel that allows your AR to run without lube....

http://www.pof-usa.com/images/223rollercampin1.jpg

http://www.pof-usa.com/parts/arparts.htm

Does anyone here know if these things really work? Should i get one?.... or if it aint broke dont fix it?

Thanks

[txgunner00]

Need is always a subjective term..

Interesting part- hadn't seen it before. Don't know much about pistons but I would like to get on one day. I'm just waiting on all the bugs to be worked out by everyone else

[LRRPF52]

I have two of them...one for AR15 and one for AR10. I haven't used them yet, since they were gifts from the owner of POF at 2010 SHOT. It's actually a design Colt had on their AR-10A prototype that was never built. Guys that have used them show that they cause the same wear on the upper as a regular cam pin. Colt might have gotten these ideas from the Dutch, who made the first version of what would become the charge handle we no know.

I put one in my retro Model 605 project's bolt carrier group just so I could have something more hidden in it, since it's a sleeper.

Short answer: No

[Grendel-Gene]

Ok.... last question; so does this so work on the normal AR gas systems too???

[Drifter]

Ok.... last question; so does this so work on the normal AR gas systems too???

Yes, but it requires changing of the gas key:

[LRRPF52]

Yes, I forgot to mention that I installed that modified gas key on a slickside (no forward assist serrations) bolt carrier from Young's, using sealing compound, torquing well, and sealant on the fastener threads too.

The AR10 version doesn't need any special gas key because the gas key is higher on the bog boy, providing enough clearance for the roller cam.

I told the owner of POF at SHOT that Colt had that roller cam on the AR-10A back in the early 1960's, which he was unaware of. Pretty interesting to see history repeated like that.

[fanofflyn]

If you're running a gas piston, why worry about needing lube? It's clean there, just go ahead and lube it and forget it. I have used low friction cams, but probably I don's shoot as many rounds as others do, so my observations may not be as applicable (the rounds being divided among several AR actions, impingement and piston.) I think with the piston, I worry about the wear in the buffer tube on the bottom more, as this has been shown to be a problem in some high round firearms.

[stokesrj]

In my not so humble opinion, which has changed over the years and the rounds fired, the direct inpingment system is the best. Pistons, rollers, all that stuff is for people who shoot suprressed full auto. They detract from the proper use of a rifle, which is hitting distant and difficult tartgets.
However, I have nothing against entrapranures who develop and sell such devises, if there is a demand, fill it.
Bob

[LRRPF52]

A short-stroke piston requires more cleaning than any of the operating systems I have used, when you look at DI, long-stroke op-rod, & short-stroke op-rod. Allowing carbon build-up on the piston head in a short-stroke system is synonymous with reliability problems in some guns, like the FAL, SVD, SVT-38/40, SKS, M-14, & definitely the M60.

What's funny is that the AR with DI continues to run dirty, as long as it is lubed, contrary to everything we heard in the military and gun rags. Guys in the unit told me about running their M4's suppressed all month long with no cleaning, just lube, with no issues.

As a SAW or M60 gunner, that piston head was one of the main things that was cleaned first, and the SAW is a long-stroke system that should be relatively immune from carbon fouling in that area.

[fanofflyn]

Oh, I wasn't saying that a piston gun doesn't get dirty, just the cam area doesn't get as dirty, so lube there wouldn't get dirty quick. I also agree that I'm getting less enchanted with the couple of pistons that I'm playing with, although the experimentation was fun. I'm currently building only DI guns, as I agree with all the arguments given above. I suspected that even before I built the piston guns, but it's still fun to find out. I've never had a failure in a DI gun from being dirty either.

[montana]

Like any mechanical device' lube helps decrease ware in part's. The gas piston helps keep the bolt carrier area cleaner in a dusty environment since oil attracts dust and use of oil in that part of the rifle in a piston set up isn't as crucial as a DI system. The gas piston should be cleaned every so often' though I have shot hundreds of rounds with a Adam Arms piston without cleaning. The Adam Arms piston is very easy to pull out and clean. The DI system can run a long time without cleaning ' but you do need to add oil quite often in the bolt area or it will fail. I have never had a malfunction from not cleaning my gas piston but I have noticed it can be harder to pull the piston out if the piston isn't wiped off every 500 to 1000 round's.

[LRRPF52]

Yes. In a field environment, whether I have been carrying a FAL, M14, or M60, the gas piston is another critical part aside from the bolt carrier and bolt that has to be maintained to keep the gun running, and these areas are subject to lots of heating and cooling, which seems to attract rust rather quickly.

This is one of the reasons why I like the DI system. The critical parts are all in one place since the bolt is the piston, and is encased in the receivers, with plenty of lube if used properly. Maintenance from a soldier's perspective is doubly time-consuming when doing a simple field strip on a short-stroke or long-stroke op-rod system, and your Team leader will be watching to ensure that you clean the crap out of your piston head, if he's doing his job. The Squad leader and Platoon Sergeant might do a spot check, and they'll often pick the dirtiest dirtbag of your soldiers when they do the spot check.

Cleaning the AR family as a soldier is one of the simplest maintenance tasks in the field. The military makes it a pain by requiring a white glove inspection, but that gets even more fun with the SAW, and one of the first places they check is the piston head. I'm no advocate of white glove inspections, but it's also easy to cover up rust with lots of oil, so it cuts both ways if you don't lube weapons.

[jkingrph]

I installed a couple of those, and still think that an upper needs lube.

[usmc1371]

i have a roller cam pin and i still run lube. i have 3 fals and i still run lube....... dissimillar metal will eventually ware and gual up.