Technical gun cleaning discussion

[TedBrewer5]

[LR1955]

TB5:

What process do you use to clean your barrels and with what gear?

Copper in or out? When Sweets came out, guys used it and their patches were dark blue. The color of the patches was enough for guys to use copper remover. The question of it doing anything was never asked. Finally, after a couple of decades, a school of thought came about saying the copper fills microscopic voids in the barrel, making the barrel more consistent. I am surprised Sweets is still on the market but I like it if I get into old surplus ammo with corrosive primers. Otherwise, I never noticed a difference and saved my time and money. Like moly coated bullets -- when they first came out people swore by them. Then people started questioning their value in terms of the money spent and found out they did not score any better than bullets that were not moly coated.

I also think with the Grendel that rod guides and other esoteric pieces of cleaning gear are probably not worth the money. An AR needs the chamber cleaned but otherwise some solvent and a bore snake cleans the barrels just fine. I will spend time getting the bolt and bolt carrier cleaned though. Inside of the lower also. PITA but they can really get dirty.

I look at it like this. If you want to spend your time and money removing copper then go for it. I just think it a waste of time under the vast majority of shooting conditions so don't.

Remember that after you remove the copper and shoot the rifle, it takes time for all those pores in the barrel to fill with copper again and thus you have inconsistencies -- although I doubt anyone can measure them. Just sounds good.

LR-55

[VASCAR2]

[lazyengineer]

Great thread - because TBH, I really don't know. Over the years, I've kind of leaned more towards LR1955's philosophy myself. My own practice is basically don't clean the rifle at all if just a simple outing. After a few hundred rounds, I'll maybe spray some CLP or equivilant through the ejection port onto the bolt, and maybe into the BCG vent hole. And pull a boresnake with a bit of CLP on it.

After 500 rounds or so, I sometimes will do a full barrel cleaning, just because. On that day, my practice (And I'm not saying this is The Correct way, just what I do)
Solvents:
-CLP or equivalent. Sometimes Royal Purple.
-Lubriplate, or Red Mobil One Grease
-BoreTech CU++ Solvent. (Note, not BoreTech Eleminator - read too many posts in other forums of people getting weird snail-trail etching in their bores in correlation to that stuff)
-Butches Solvent when I want a general copper + carbon solvent.


Process:
-Pull BCG and strip, whip down with cloth and then lube.
--Lube is Lubriplate or similar on any wear-location, bolt lugs (both sides), and Cam Pin.
--Then spray it all with CLP or Royal Purple.

-Push a dry patch through the bore, to get out the easy stuff
-then put a copper brush on the tip, and run it all the way through and all the way back, about 20 times (yes, that's a lot), to blow out the fouling via mild abrasion.
-The copper brush will leave copper deposition in it's own right.
-Dry patch
-Wet Cu++ Solvent Patch - it will be quite blue.
Note: (most of my outings involve more than one firearm, so I intermingle these cleaning steps to give some soak time)
-Dry patch - blue
-Repeat above 2 steps about 10-20 times, until patches come out basically clean.
-a couple extra dry patches to purge out the solvent
-a wet patch with CLP or Royal Purple (avoid lubes with Teflon)
-A dry patch

-Reassemble and store muzzle-down in the safe.

As LR1955 notes, your zero is now going to be off for your next shot, as the barrel is no longer the same. It will take at least 2 shots before you should trust POI to actually be about the same - sometimes more. Irrelevant if hunting a hog at 50 yards. More important, if your next stop is the 600 yard Mid-Range match.

[LRRPF52]

and bad weather shooter, so I usually schedule courses in the dead middle of winter in the mountains here in Utah.







I have found that if you live in the Southern US, PNW, and New England, you have to be more concerned about corrosion due to the precipitation.

The next harsher climates are where we experience extreme cold with any moisture.

Hot/dry climates are easy on guns, except for dust and sand getting in the actions.

One of the most overlooked set of components on modern rifles are the little steel fasteners though, especially with modern handguards.

I have seen those turn orange overnight on high-end guns, so I recommend Cerakoting the heads of those fasteners when you drop them off with a coater.

The method I used was poking holes in pie tins, then inserting the fasteners in the holes before spraying and then baking them.

Keep Bolt Carriers wet with thick lube, whether you use motor oil, CLP, or Slip2000. The thinner oils are fine on other rifle designs, but not the Stoner Internal Expansion AR-15 and AR-10. The thin oils cook-off quickly due to gas system heat. Thick oils stay and continue to lubricate. If you ever compare CLP to RemOil for example, you can see a big difference in thickness.

[Klem]

TB5,

I don't worry about copper anymore and follow the school of thought that it is actually good for barrels. It fills all the micro-pores which helps with ongoing accuracy. The F Class crowd I shoot with don't remove copper either, except the 'Old and bolds', who scrub the hell out of their barrels and are all deaf from not wearing ear protection when they were younger.

I used to use Sweets solvent which included the warning to remove it after 15min or it keeps dissolving everything it touches - which is true. I switched to BoreTec without the ammonia, but finally threw it all in the bin. It just was not helping anything. Every time you clean copper it shifts zero, and then you have to start the cycle of filling the pores and settling the zero again.

I only clean carbon now, but only after a big shooting session or when the groups open up, or if the gun has been out and about. I am conscious that shooting suppressed gets everything filthier quicker, and in semi autos their actions need to be be cleaned regardless. Remove the suppressor at the first opportunity or all that soot will absorb moisture and turn into corrosive salts, attacking the suppressor and anything attached. When in the bush I work the action every now and then, even just slightly if there's a round up the spout to make sure it's all moving. Bore snakes work too, but I tend to use them in the field, or prior to shooting, using rods for normal cleaning. Storing dirty guns is not an issue in an armory or safe if the environment is not too humid, or salty (near the ocean). If you leave the barrel dirty Zerust VCI emitting plastic barrel strips help.
tube-strip_01_LRG.jpg

For bolt guns, after shooting the barrels are left untouched, stored with a piece of anti-corrosion cord down the barrel. For semi-autos the working parts always get cleaned, and typically the barrel as well due to likely high volume shooting, and being suppressed.

For new barrels I just shoot them. Advice is mixed on this and until there is consensus I am happy to avoid the tedium of seasoning barrels according to a one-size-fits-all dogma. I've never seen any improved longevity of barrels, or accuracy by shooting and cleaning every five shots at the start. If you buy quality barrels and change them as often as we do, you won't notice anything anyway.

[TedBrewer5]

[Zeneffect]

If you don't have a borescope already, don't get one and stay happy. If you get one you will change the way you clean, waste money on new cleaners, get stupid amounts of patches, jags, brushes to get the right combination of sh!t so it "looks as good on tv"

That being said, patch out + accelerator + nylon brush + 4 hour soak gets me 98% of the way there. A follow up with c4 carbon cleaner does the rest. I'm one of those "must be spotless" guys and inspect with a borescope and clean after every session (I have my reasons)

[BlogSarge]

https://www.superquickcleanguns.com/

[DeNinny]

Y'all just opened my eyes on not bothering with copper remover. I might have to experiment with stopping it. When I eventually run out of my Hoppes, Montana Xtreme, and BoreTech, I'll start.

I'm of the philosophy of keeping things consistent, so I thoroughly clean after every time I go shooting. Copper removal included. The thought being that my gun is going to be in a known (clean) condition when I next shoot it. I use Hoppes #9 bore cleaner on the barrel, and for everything else I use Breakthrough military grade solvent or Hoppes carbon remover, followed by Radcolube CLP.

On lube, I only ever use Lucas Red-n-Tacky grease. Love it. No disrespect to team oil, but I'm on team grease all the way.

The only oil I use is on a clean barrel. Run one patch saturated with it and follow that with a dry patch.

[Harpoon1]

https://youtu.be/_6TAMM-fz-c

The notion that a softer metal, specifically a bronze brush, can somehow scratch or damage a harder metal, specifically a nitrided or chrome lined barrel, is, as best I can tell without any merit! YMMV! https://youtu.be/shqUtDdX4QM998ABE06-E7C5-4356-8D83-54CDD8465855.jpeg

[TedBrewer5]

[Harpoon1]

[DeNinny]

Great points, Harpoon1. Use oil, "run it wet". Use grease, "run it gooey".

[stonehog]

https://youtu.be/T3jBsxhLejM

One of my favorite accuracy/cleaning discussions between an f-class champ and a benchrest hall-of-famer touches on why/when you need to go full OCD on cleaning. I think the summary is that if you don't want to worry about the barrel impacting shots, keep it as clean as your distance warrants. Carbon impacts the groups, but it may not matter to you. However, if you are shooting benchrest at 200 or f-class at 1000, it matters. The benchrester (Jack Neary) shoots 6PPC, so this is close to our favorite cartridge. Amazing discussion on reading groups, too!