one case, one caliber, so many options....anyone have a critique of the differenes between these 3? all pretty similar i am guessing. I have a rifle length .223 AR i have been thinking bout switching it over to 6mm....so many choices. 6mm AR, .243LBC, etc...I think i'd rather go for getting every bit of powder i can though and go with an A.I. type of round
6mm AR turbo 40, 6mm fat rat, 6mm grinch
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I have two rifles, a 6BR in an Eliseo R5 chassis with a 27 inch barrel which I love dearly, and a SAAMI grendel space gun with a 28 inch barrel which is growing on me. My 6BR load is a 108gr Berger BT at 2780 fps. My grendel load is a 130 gr Berger AR hybrid at 2560 fps. My grendel load fits in a magazine. The ballistics calculator on the Berger web site shows about 5 inches more drift at 1000 yards in a 10mph cross wind with the grendel compared to the 6BR. The 6BR delivers better accuracy but both of these rifles shoot sub 0.5 MOA. I would expect the performance from a 6mm AR Turbo 40 or a FatRat to be similar to the 6BR. I've seen claims of higher velocities and I don't dispute those claims. I just don't expect to see a much higher velocity out of one of my barrels. Based on what I've seen the grendel is competitive with these wildcats and you don't have to fire form your brass. Go grendel.Last edited by rwh; 04-21-2017, 09:43 PM.
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I really dont like a ton of reloading work, so the standard 6AR is my pick. (Really dont like reloading at all)
I can size the 6.5 Grendel neck to 6mm in one shot, no fireforming required.
The others are definitely faster, and very similar to themselves, but not enough difference for what I do - to matter.NRA F-Class Mid Range High Master
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Look at this way:
Built it as a 6AR, by the time you master loading for it, and shooting it youll be having so much fun that it will be shot out before you know it.
Then at that point you can decide if you have the desire to upgrade the barrel to the 40 Degree turbo.NRA F-Class Mid Range High Master
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I have 3 AR's, one of which is a grendel i have had about 3 years. I like it. I was just thinking about turning one of my 5.56's into a 6mm.....so many 6mm's now available based on a grendel case....I can't imagine they are that different in performance...
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All good points here. I'm a shooting match competitor and not a hunter, and always loved the 243 Win due to light recoil and great long range ballistics. My 243 load (out of bolt gun) was a Sierra 107 at 2870 fps. I own a DPMS LR-243 (accurate gun), but I always wanted to have 243 Win ballistics out of a nice & handy small frame AR. To that end I recently built a 6mm Grendel upper and bought a 6mm Fat Rat upper and plan to test them side by side; I don't think they'll replicate my 243 Win ballistics but I'll be happy if I get close, especially given I'll only be burning about 30 grains of powder. My 6.5 Grendel load is a 123 bullet at 2529 fps, and it's a great gun, but I'd rather have a 0.5 BC bullet going 2700+ fps.
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Originally posted by Blazin View PostAll good points here. I'm a shooting match competitor and not a hunter, and always loved the 243 Win due to light recoil and great long range ballistics. My 243 load (out of bolt gun) was a Sierra 107 at 2870 fps. I own a DPMS LR-243 (accurate gun), but I always wanted to have 243 Win ballistics out of a nice & handy small frame AR. To that end I recently built a 6mm Grendel upper and bought a 6mm Fat Rat upper and plan to test them side by side; I don't think they'll replicate my 243 Win ballistics but I'll be happy if I get close, especially given I'll only be burning about 30 grains of powder. My 6.5 Grendel load is a 123 bullet at 2529 fps, and it's a great gun, but I'd rather have a 0.5 BC bullet going 2700+ fps.
Accurate too!
[IMG][/IMG]
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The berger ballistics calculator shows the 105 scenar L at 2850 fps has 97.6 inches of drift at 1000 yards compared to only 90 inches of drift for the 130 AR hybrid at 2560 fps. I might have some small group pictures somewhere, but here's a 20 shot group from a 300 yard reduced slow fire prone course I shot with my grendel this weekend. Wind was 10-15 from 10 o'clock. The grendel can still keep up with the wildcats.Attached Files
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Originally posted by rwh View PostThe berger ballistics calculator shows the 105 scenar L at 2850 fps has 97.6 inches of drift at 1000 yards compared to only 90 inches of drift for the 130 AR hybrid at 2560 fps. I might have some small group pictures somewhere, but here's a 20 shot group from a 300 yard reduced slow fire prone course I shot with my grendel this weekend. Wind was 10-15 from 10 o'clock. The grendel can still keep up with the wildcats.
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I used the G1 BC of 0.472 from http://www.lapua.com/en/reloading-co...llets/scenar-l with a muzzle velocity of 2850 and a 10 mph cross wind in the calculator at http://bergerbullets.com/ballistics/ to get those numbers. Using the berger 105 hybrid throws the advantage clearly to the 6mm. The berger 105 hybrid will be my go to bullet for 6mm once I use up my stock of 108 BT bullets. I admit I am one of those grendel fanboys. I like to point out that the standard grendel cartridge can come close to the performance of the wildcats with the right bullet.
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Originally posted by rwh View PostI used the G1 BC of 0.472 from http://www.lapua.com/en/reloading-co...llets/scenar-l with a muzzle velocity of 2850 and a 10 mph cross wind in the calculator at http://bergerbullets.com/ballistics/ to get those numbers. Using the berger 105 hybrid throws the advantage clearly to the 6mm. The berger 105 hybrid will be my go to bullet for 6mm once I use up my stock of 108 BT bullets. I admit I am one of those grendel fanboys. I like to point out that the standard grendel cartridge can come close to the performance of the wildcats with the right bullet.
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Originally posted by rwh View PostThe berger ballistics calculator shows the 105 scenar L at 2850 fps has 97.6 inches of drift at 1000 yards compared to only 90 inches of drift for the 130 AR hybrid at 2560 fps. I might have some small group pictures somewhere, but here's a 20 shot group from a 300 yard reduced slow fire prone course I shot with my grendel this weekend. Wind was 10-15 from 10 o'clock. The grendel can still keep up with the wildcats.
Dont be so sure the std Grendel can hang with the 6mm AR wildcats.
These guys do some "not in the book stuff", and get velocities that are crazy fast.
Just FYI, for my 6mm ARs here, most guys use the 105 Berger BTT or the 105 Berger Hybrid. No reason to use Scenars when they arent cheap, and generally dont perform as well. I have the 115 DTAC and the 105 Barts as well. Both have very high BCs for 6mm bullets.NRA F-Class Mid Range High Master
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