Kowa 601 vs 82SV?

[SDW]

Hi all. I searched here but found no info. Obviously, the TSN 82 is bigger and heavier than the TSN 601---and of course there is a $250-300 price difference between the two---but other than that is there any quality difference in the glass and prism type they use? Or is the 82's only advantage better light gathering, "brightness" and so forth? They use the same Ocular pieces, so the magnification would be about the same between the two.

I can't seem to find any detailed specs on them that would give me this information.

[LR1955]

Hi all. I searched here but found no info. Obviously, the TSN 82 is bigger and heavier than the TSN 601---and of course there is a $250-300 price difference between the two---but other than that is there any quality difference in the glass and prism type they use? Or is the 82's only advantage better light gathering, "brightness" and so forth? They use the same Ocular pieces, so the magnification would be about the same between the two.

I can't seem to find any detailed specs on them that would give me this information.

I have one of the earlier 82mm Kowas and have looked through the 60mm models to compare.

The 82mm one is superior to the 60 mm optic in picking up details that may make a difference such as nuances in mirage or bullet holes and or splash on a target at longer distances than the 60 mm optic. Basically because the 82mm one picks up more light. There is a difference that you will see immediately.

Is the 82mm one worth the extra money?

If you are going to shoot at long ranges where you must dope wind via mirage or are shooting steel at long distances and need to see bullet splash, no question about it, get the 82mm model.

If your shooting is at 600 or less, you probably will be fine with the smaller one. It still won't give you the degree of detail that many serious shooters want but it will probably be clearer than any competing optic. Kowa is a very good brand.

My Kowas are fixed power so they have long eye relief. LER is a must if you will be on glass for a long time observing something, or are shooting from position where you need some give in how close the eye needs to be to the ocular lens. I did not see a LER lens so would opt for the wide angle one. Don't skimp on lens coating either. Get the lenses that are fully coated.

Neither are good options for carrying in a ruck. Too big and too heavy. However, you won't find a smaller one that gives the same clarity and resolving ability so I guess there is no one size thing here.

LR55

[SDW]

Thanks. Good things to think about. I will be getting it with the fixed 25x LER occular, whichever scope I get. I've always wanted a spotting scope with a nice straight power of this magnification. I'd honestly be happy with any scope that's better than my old Leupold Sequoia 15-45x60mm. The Kowa 601 is roughly the same overall size and might actually be lighter in weight. However I don't know that for sure after factoring in the occular and padded case. But I think it would still fit in the Pelican case I use for carrying my SS and little tripod.

Apparently they both have fully multi-coated lenses, which I would expect. Do you happen to know if these both use Bak-4 prism glass? None of the literature I found mentions it for these two scope models. However, I'd like to assume that any "decent" scope does.

[LR1955]

Thanks. Good things to think about. I will be getting it with the fixed 25x LER occular, whichever scope I get. I've always wanted a spotting scope with a nice straight power of this magnification. I'd honestly be happy with any scope that's better than my old Leupold Sequoia 15-45x60mm. The Kowa 601 is roughly the same overall size and might actually be lighter in weight. However I don't know that for sure after factoring in the occular and padded case. But I think it would still fit in the Pelican case I use for carrying my SS and little tripod.

Apparently they both have fully multi-coated lenses, which I would expect. Do you happen to know if these both use Bak-4 prism glass? None of the literature I found mentions it for these two scope models. However, I'd like to assume that any "decent" scope does.

There will be absolutely no doubt in your mind that the Kowas you are looking at are superior to the Leupold line.

As for Bak-4 prism glass -- I bet they do but you should write them and ask.

I have used both straight and angled eyepieces and will not consider buying a optic with a straight eyepiece again.

What will you use the spotting scope for?

LR55

[SDW]

Thanks again for your input. I was actually planning to get the angled version. It seems like the more popular design and there must be a reason for that. Probably easier on the neck when lying prone.

As for the intended use, a bit of what's below. This is my one an only Grendel (upper). I shot it out to 1000 yds on the first day. With a surprising amount of success I might add. Never shot beyond 500 yds prior to that, and it was with 5.56 only. The combo of this upper (20" BA and an SWFA 10x) and my rifle lower made it surprisingly easy to hit an 18" plate set out on a distant (1000 yd) hillside. But I digress. I also just like having a spotting scope out with me in the desert on camping trips. As you know, the open country of the West provides opportunities for just having a good look around at stuff. I bring binoculars with me as well usually. But after setting up camp for the afternoon, the bipod and spotting scope usually get deployed as well. They're nice for star gazing too.

But getting back to shooting, if could see bullet splash at 1000 and wind on the creosote bushes a little better using the 601, I'd be happy. I think I will order it tonight. B&H is having a sale on them. Ends tomorrow I believe.

GrendelDez.jpg

[LR1955]

Thanks again for your input. I was actually planning to get the angled version. It seems like the more popular design and there must be a reason for that. Probably easier on the neck when lying prone.

As for the intended use, a bit of what's below. This is my one an only Grendel (upper). I shot it out to 1000 yds on the first day. With a surprising amount of success I might add. Never shot beyond 500 yds prior to that, and it was with 5.56 only. The combo of this upper (20" BA and an SWFA 10x) and my rifle lower made it surprisingly easy to hit an 18" plate set out on a distant (1000 yd) hillside. But I digress. I also just like having a spotting scope out with me in the desert on camping trips. As you know, the open country of the West provides opportunities for just having a good look around at stuff. I bring binoculars with me as well usually. But after setting up camp for the afternoon, the bipod and spotting scope usually get deployed as well. They're nice for star gazing too.

But getting back to shooting, if could see bullet splash at 1000 and wind on the creosote bushes a little better using the 601, I'd be happy. I think I will order it tonight. B&H is having a sale on them. Ends tomorrow I believe.

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You won't see splash, trace, or details of mirage better with the 601 than the 82mm version. For what you are doing, get the 82mm Kowa. You will never regret it.

LR55

[SDW]

You won't see splash, trace, or details of mirage better with the 601 than the 82mm version. For what you are doing, get the 82mm Kowa. You will never regret it.

LR55

Hi. You know what? I didn't phrase that last statement correctly. Came out wrong. My apology. When I said, "see the blah blah a little better", I meant see it better than with my existing Leupold, if I swapped up even to a 601. With the Leupold I could only sorta, kinda see the dirt splash around that hanging steel plate when my friend was shooting at it with this 6.5 Creed. But of course I wouldn't expect the 601 to do as well as the 82. I just hope it's somewhere close. The 82 is pushing a grand, retail, even on sale. I might try out the 601 for a while. Maybe look for a deal on a used 82 at some point. I just discovered today that I need to take my car to my mechanic soon to replace a leaking clutch master cylinder and a couple of other things.

I did think later that the 601's mount does not swivel around the body like it does on many other scopes, including the 82. So it might be interesting trying to use it mounted sideways like I have my other scope in that pic. But I do have a nice ballhead I could use to rotate it a little if need be.

[LR1955]

Hi. You know what? I didn't phrase that last statement correctly. Came out wrong. My apology. When I said, "see the blah blah a little better", I meant see it better than with my existing Leupold, if I swapped up even to a 601. With the Leupold I could only sorta, kinda see the dirt splash around that hanging steel plate when my friend was shooting at it with this 6.5 Creed. But of course I wouldn't expect the 601 to do as well as the 82. I just hope it's somewhere close. The 82 is pushing a grand, retail, even on sale. I might try out the 601 for a while. Maybe look for a deal on a used 82 at some point. I just discovered today that I need to take my car to my mechanic soon to replace a leaking clutch master cylinder and a couple of other things.

I did think later that the 601's mount does not swivel around the body like it does on many other scopes, including the 82. So it might be interesting trying to use it mounted sideways like I have my other scope in that pic. But I do have a nice ballhead I could use to rotate it a little if need be.

I figured out you were comparing it to your Leupold.

The 601 is better but you already have identified a major problem with them. They don't swivel. If you use a ball head mount, you have to have the optic off to one side and this generally puts the tripod off balance so the scope ends up falling. Other option is to open up the tripod legs a lot but they will get in the way of your body when in position.

Been there and done that. It will be a big thing every time you set up your optic in a position.

LR55

[SDW]

Been there and done that. It will be a big thing every time you set up your optic in a position.

[LR1955]

SDW:

Looks familiar. Am sure you will really like the Kowa compared to the Leupold. A great little spotting scope.

LR55

[SDW]

Should be interesting. Can't wait to check it out.

Speaking of Kowa 82s, what's going on here? Just for fun i started looking around to see how cheap 82s could be had. For the future maybe. This price seems too good to be true.

http://www.sale-telescopes.com/products/Kowa-TSN%252d82SV-High-Performance-Spotting-Scope-%28Angled%29.html

[SDW]

Hah! Never mind. I got curious and decided to dig into their site a little further. That company is in Jakarta, Indonesia. No wonder the prices are so whacky. Only payment method available is bank transfer! Even if the prices are USD, the shipping and possible future hassles would be so not worth the trouble.

[SDW]

Hey LR55. Seems like you've been around and seen lots of setups. Have you by chance every checked out a Bresser Condor spotting scope? It's sold by this guy Jim Owens, a retired Marine who seems to live and breath LR shooting.

http://www.jarheadtop.com/

I'd never heard of Bresser and would not have given them a second look since they have no presence really on the internet, no following so to speak. Except that this guy sells only the two Kowas we've been discussing, and this Condor. Bresser is a German company, but the $360 price says 'made in China' I'll admit. OTOH, the specs are impressive. Bak-4 prism, fully-multicoated lenses, 20-60x and 85mm objective. At the risk of speculating, it seems like, if it was a mediocre scope, a guy like him would offer some other kind of 'value' scope.

Company's page here:

https://www.bresser.de/en/Sport-Optics/Spotting-Scopes/BRESSER-Condor-20-60x85-Spotting-Scope.html

[LR1955]

Hey LR55. Seems like you've been around and seen lots of setups. Have you by chance every checked out a Bresser Condor spotting scope? It's sold by this guy Jim Owens, a retired Marine who seems to live and breath LR shooting.

http://www.jarheadtop.com/

I'd never heard of Bresser and would not have given them a second look since they have no presence really on the internet, no following so to speak. Except that this guy sells only the two Kowas we've been discussing, and this Condor. Bresser is a German company, but the $360 price says 'made in China' I'll admit. OTOH, the specs are impressive. Bak-4 prism, fully-multicoated lenses, 20-60x and 85mm objective. At the risk of speculating, it seems like, if it was a mediocre scope, a guy like him would offer some other kind of 'value' scope.

Company's page here:

https://www.bresser.de/en/Sport-Opti...ing-Scope.html

SDW:

Somewhere in the back of my mind I have heard of Bresser. Can't recall where but I have never seen one on a High Power range being used by any competitive, competitive shooter. A somewhat depressing aspect of optics is that as the quality goes up, so does the price. If given a choice between a Kowa and one of these Bressers, sorry but I would suck it up and get the Kowa.

I surely have heard of Jim Owens though and have his four or five pamphlets on High Power shooting. The very best guide and instructional manual I have ever read on wind doping is his 'Reading Winds and Spotting'. The guy really has a knack for clearly communicating some pretty complex aspects of competitive High Power. Haven't heard his name even mentioned for about twenty years now but of all the money I have dumped into 'how to' stuff before the era of the internet, his very inexpensive pamphlets on High Power shooting was very much worth the money. I surely hope that guy is in good health and is continuing to influence new generations of marksmen in his very positive manner.

LR55

[SDW]

Thanks LR55. I was just curious about them. If I had money to experiment it might be interesting to check out that Bresser. Just for the heck of it. But I don't. Better to spend a little more on a sure thing.

Well I got my 601. Very nice scope. Noticeably better than the Leupold, as you said it would be. When I look at houses on a hilltop 1500 yds way I can pick out a lot of fine detail. For example, a gong-sized BBQ. Window molding, etc. I am sure it will be a huge improvement at 500-1000 yd distances of our shooting area. The gongs hanging from chains between stakes should come in very sharp now.

I did a very quick mockup of using it from a prone position. Not too bad I don't think. I forgot to measure the height of the eyepiece. Maybe next time. When I bought this used tripod it came with a decent pan/tilt head. Didn't think I would find a use for it. Turns out it works quite acceptably here. It's just a little bulky is all. I think what would be ideal in this situation would be a Mantrotto Joystick ball head. Thinking about that.

Edit: Another bonus --- The Kowa (with eyepiece) weighs 5 ounces less than my old Leupold.

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