Having a hard time picking up CQC+BDC solution

[R2BRO]

I am building a piston driven Grendel setup. Here are my requirements for the sighting device for it.

Purpose: be able to effectively and accurately shoot any 18"-24" size circle target from 0-700 yards (obviously its not for sub MOA exercise); while at the same time be lightweight enough for fast CQC swings and aiming (thus-> no any magnification adding weight)

1) it MUST have circle type CQC ring (65/68 MOA circle)
2) it MUST have some sort of additional dot to be able to compensate for >300yrd shootings
3) i do NOT plan to use magnifiers
4) it must NOT be EOTech
5) I "prefer" 1 MOA dots (though 2 MOA center dot might be acceptable to me)
6) it must be >30mm lens
7) infinite eye relief
8) dual scopes on this rifle is NOT acceptable

what i did:
1) bought ROMEO08T, it does cover 1,2 for me, however; the 4 BDC dots kinda blend into one line and it is difficult do discriminate between 2nd and 3rd from top points, its too much! they should have make it 2 dot but not freacking 4! you can select various reticle modes...but unfortunately not just 2-dot mode...
i returned it since it had deformed killflash but thats a different story; otherwise i liked it, the only thing is its center dot is 2 MOA, but its kinda OK. I think i could live with 4 dots too...its just id use top and bottom and middle dots would be useless for me.

2) bought EXPS3-2, ok.. EOTECh is just expensive gimmick and a picky toy, no way id consider it for something serious. I do not even CARE how many operators using it. I received EXPS3-2, and it was behaving weird, its circle and dots were super grainy and glowy and it was projecting circle in front on any dark surface...i could stand in front of turned off TV and literally project red circle on it.
I know i received a defective unit and already in process of return. but after seeing such BS i do not even feel like ordering this again (the ROMEO8T at least worked properly, just killflash was deformed)
(please do NOT discuss this with me and try to convince that EOTech is great, lets just move on)

what else is there:
1) UH-1 from vortex, looks really cool, but its first gen has weird problems: a) it projects its rectangle on nearby objects, b) its reticle disappears to the left c) not confirmed but saw from some reviewers that its not friendly for long range stuff
so... UH-1 GEN II is coming out in July... but here is a thing: it is Holographic... and i see occasionally from various places here and there that Eotech using that tech having issues. so... i don't know if i should go for it or no. but on another side, the way how Vortex is implementing its Holographics solution is different from EOtech so it *MIGHT* be OK.

now... my question: what else is there which would fit my described constraints?

[VASCAR2]

Take a look at this Swampfox optics low power variable scope. They have a 1-6, 1-8 or 1-10 power with several options on reticles. A couple of the reticles have a BDC reticle using an E O Tech style of circle dot but an added ranging feature. The 1-10 power might have the ability to shoot out to 700 yards. Your other options might be a Burris 1-6 RT6 or XTR II 1-5 which has a reticle which might suit your needs. Vortex Razor always get good reviews.

https://www.swampfoxoptics.com/arrowhead-lpvo-series

You might look for optics with the ACSS reticle. Here is a 4-14x44 FFP from Primary Arms to give you info about the reticle. Trijicon is using this reticle.

https://www.primaryarms.com/primary-arms-4-14x44mm-riflescope-acss-hud-dmr-308-223-reticle

[R2BRO]

thanks, but unfortunately all what you listed doesn't meet constraint #7 - infinite eye relief. thus, it cannot be considered a true CQC solution.

[Lemonaid]

I have the Burris Mtac 1-4 and like it. https://www.burrisoptics.com/scopes/...scope-1-4x24mm

[LR1955]

R2BRO

You won't find a magnified optic with 'infinite eye relief'.

When guys were using the ACOG in CQC, once they got used to the ACOG they didn't have an issue with engagements at close quarters. Most tried the gross iron sight put on the ACOG but went back to looking through it because that stupid notch and post thing that Trijicon put on the ACOG was totally useless. They taught themselves to use the optic and were just as fast as when using a M-68 sight.

BTW -- go under about 10X and you will have a real hard time seeing a target at 700 unless it is standing totally still and is in complete contrast with the background.

You seem to have discovered that there is a trade off between magnification and reticle patterns. The lower the magnification, the more dots and lines in a reticle get bunched up and become hard to see and with it your sight picture.

Oh yes, one minute dots will become very difficult for you to see in limited visibility and unless the reticle is illuminated, tend to blend into dark colored targets. Unless your optic is ten plus power. But then your CQB stuff gets problematic.

Good luck with your search.

LR55

[imaguy3]

In addition to LR1955 good info... the "light enough for swings" requirement I'm confused about. What does that mean? I can swing my grendel with a 3-18 just fine enough to hit a running coyote up close.

[Old Bob]

It doesn't have the circle type CQC ring but I sure like the Aimpoint CompM4 on my M4 Carbine. This Trijicon Red Dot might be closer to your needs but it's 25mm, not 30 & it's not cheap! You might have to compromise some of your requirements to get your best possible sight.

https://www.trijicon.com/products/details/mro-c-2200052

[R2BRO]

LR1955, you probably missed my initial requirements i posted, i actually do NOT want any magnification. i stated it in #3 as well.

so i am looking for NON-magnified optic but WITH BDC, wide screen, and large circle for CQC.

the closest was Holosuns Parlow or whatever, but its just 20mm tube unfortunately..

anyway...afterall, i might again just order ROMEO8T since its the only one closest to my requirements.

[VASCAR2]

[biodsl]

Interesting about requirement #4, because as far as I know, EOTech makes the only red dot with a two dot option. Let us know if you find what you're looking for.

[LR1955]

LR1955, you probably missed my initial requirements i posted, i actually do NOT want any magnification. i stated it in #3 as well.

so i am looking for NON-magnified optic but WITH BDC, wide screen, and large circle for CQC.

the closest was Holosuns Parlow or whatever, but its just 20mm tube unfortunately..

anyway...afterall, i might again just order ROMEO8T since its the only one closest to my requirements.

R2B:

Did not miss your requirements. When you said you wanted performance to 700 yards it means a magnified optic.

Good thing is that you made up some requirements so your final choice will probably be pretty good.

LR55

[justinspicher]

[PVBoom]

No, that is the common interpretation.

Magnifier is a term used for a separate device that magnifies an unmagnified optic like a holosite or a red dot.

Scopes with "magnification" are not referred to as magnifiers.

[Croak]

Primary Arms Cyclops with ACSS BDC sounds like it might work for you.

https://www.primaryarms.com/pa-1x-compact-prism-scope-with-acss-cyclops-reticle-black

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnc9EdMv6m0

Also, you were (sorry Apple) using that EoTech wrong. You don't focus on the circle-dot, you focus on the target, and it clears right up. The grain when you focus on the reticle is an artifact of a true no-parallax, laser hologram, and is a non-issue when you're actually shooting at targets and focusing properly.

[drewthebrave]

Every optic is a compromise. Your goal of CQB speed, infinite eye relief, and zero magnification have significant tradeoffs, which will make it hard to be effective at long range. While you can definitely shoot targets at long range with irons or a red dot, it's going to be difficult without an effective reticle. For what you want, the reticle will be the biggest single factor that determines your effectiveness at range.

Primary Arms Cyclops with ACSS BDC sounds like it might work for you.

https://www.primaryarms.com/pa-1x-compact-prism-scope-with-acss-cyclops-reticle-black

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnc9EdMv6m0

Also, you were (sorry Apple) using that EoTech wrong. You don't focus on the circle-dot, you focus on the target, and it clears right up. The grain when you focus on the reticle is an artifact of a true no-parallax, laser hologram, and is a non-issue when you're actually shooting at targets and focusing properly.

Agree on the EOTech. When you use it in a course of fire (not on your couch), the grainy image disappears. EOTech has my favorite RDS reticle, though my Holosun 507 is pretty close.

The Cyclops reticle's first line below the circle/chevron equates a 700 yard holdover on my Strelok app with a 200 yard zero. That's a lot of empty space between your 50/200 yard aimpoint and your 700 yard aiming point.

I think the better option would be an Eotech EXPS3-4 reticle. Here's what I see with a 200 yard zero with American Gunner from my 18" Grendel:
EOTech 3-4.png

You can hate on EOTech all you want, but they're your best bet with the -4 reticle.

Honestly? I think you'd be better served with a 1-6x LPVO.