Having a hard time picking up CQC+BDC solution

**VASCAR2** · 07-12-2020, 02:50 AM

Take a look at this Swampfox optics low power variable scope. They have a 1-6, 1-8 or 1-10 power with several options on reticles. A couple of the reticles have a BDC reticle using an E O Tech style of circle dot but an added ranging feature. The 1-10 power might have the ability to shoot out to 700 yards. Your other options might be a Burris 1-6 RT6 or XTR II 1-5 which has a reticle which might suit your needs. Vortex Razor always get good reviews.

https://www.swampfoxoptics.com/arrowhead-lpvo-series

You might look for optics with the ACSS reticle. Here is a 4-14x44 FFP from Primary Arms to give you info about the reticle. Trijicon is using this reticle.

AR-15 Scopes For Sale | Rifle Scopes | Optics

https://www.primaryarms.com/primary-arms-4-14x44mm-riflescope-acss-hud-dmr-308-223-reticle

Shop our catalog of Rifle Scopes. Find AK 47, AR 308, & AR 15 scopes from Primary Arms, Trijicon, Vortex & more. Available in BDC, MOA, MIL, ACSS & more.

**R2BRO** · 07-12-2020, 03:54 AM

thanks, but unfortunately all what you listed doesn't meet constraint #7 - infinite eye relief. thus, it cannot be considered a true CQC solution.

**Lemonaid** · 07-12-2020, 04:10 AM

I have the Burris Mtac 1-4 and like it. https://www.burrisoptics.com/scopes/...scope-1-4x24mm

**LR1955** · 07-12-2020, 12:40 PM

R2BRO

You won't find a magnified optic with 'infinite eye relief'.

When guys were using the ACOG in CQC, once they got used to the ACOG they didn't have an issue with engagements at close quarters. Most tried the gross iron sight put on the ACOG but went back to looking through it because that stupid notch and post thing that Trijicon put on the ACOG was totally useless. They taught themselves to use the optic and were just as fast as when using a M-68 sight.

BTW -- go under about 10X and you will have a real hard time seeing a target at 700 unless it is standing totally still and is in complete contrast with the background.

You seem to have discovered that there is a trade off between magnification and reticle patterns. The lower the magnification, the more dots and lines in a reticle get bunched up and become hard to see and with it your sight picture.

Oh yes, one minute dots will become very difficult for you to see in limited visibility and unless the reticle is illuminated, tend to blend into dark colored targets. Unless your optic is ten plus power. But then your CQB stuff gets problematic.

Good luck with your search.

LR55

**imaguy3** · 07-12-2020, 03:19 PM

In addition to LR1955 good info... the "light enough for swings" requirement I'm confused about. What does that mean? I can swing my grendel with a 3-18 just fine enough to hit a running coyote up close.

**Old Bob** · 07-12-2020, 03:28 PM

It doesn't have the circle type CQC ring but I sure like the Aimpoint CompM4 on my M4 Carbine. This Trijicon Red Dot might be closer to your needs but it's 25mm, not 30 & it's not cheap! You might have to compromise some of your requirements to get your best possible sight.

403 Forbidden

https://www.trijicon.com/products/details/mro-c-2200052

**R2BRO** · 07-12-2020, 03:33 PM

LR1955, you probably missed my initial requirements i posted, i actually do NOT want any magnification. i stated it in #3 as well.

so i am looking for NON-magnified optic but WITH BDC, wide screen, and large circle for CQC.

the closest was Holosuns Parlow or whatever, but its just 20mm tube unfortunately..

anyway...afterall, i might again just order ROMEO8T since its the only one closest to my requirements.

**VASCAR2** · 07-12-2020, 04:15 PM

**biodsl** · 07-12-2020, 09:28 PM

Interesting about requirement #4, because as far as I know, EOTech makes the only red dot with a two dot option. Let us know if you find what you're looking for.

**LR1955** · 07-13-2020, 12:43 AM

Originally posted by R2BRO View Post

LR1955, you probably missed my initial requirements i posted, i actually do NOT want any magnification. i stated it in #3 as well.

so i am looking for NON-magnified optic but WITH BDC, wide screen, and large circle for CQC.

the closest was Holosuns Parlow or whatever, but its just 20mm tube unfortunately..

anyway...afterall, i might again just order ROMEO8T since its the only one closest to my requirements.

R2B:

Did not miss your requirements. When you said you wanted performance to 700 yards it means a magnified optic.

Good thing is that you made up some requirements so your final choice will probably be pretty good.

LR55

**justinspicher** · 07-13-2020, 01:00 PM

**PVBoom** · 07-13-2020, 04:52 PM

No, that is the common interpretation.

Magnifier is a term used for a separate device that magnifies an unmagnified optic like a holosite or a red dot.

Scopes with "magnification" are not referred to as magnifiers.

**Croak** · 07-13-2020, 07:36 PM

Primary Arms Cyclops with ACSS BDC sounds like it might work for you.

Home

https://www.primaryarms.com/pa-1x-compact-prism-scope-with-acss-cyclops-reticle-black

DetailsAfter rigorous field testing, this optic has been given a Silver-tier rating by the National Tactical Officers Association.This Primary Arms rifle scope is part of the SLx optics line. SLx optics have built a reputation for innovation, reliability, and value. All SLx optics undergo rigorous field-testing during development to best serve you in any environment.The Primary Arms 1X Compact Prism Scope with ACSS Cyclops reticle combines the durability and flexibility of an etched reticle with the speed and ease of use of a red dot. Unlike most prism optics, the 1X Compact Prism Scope has a generous 3.7 inches of eye relief combined with a massive 13mm exit pupil to provide an exceptionally forgiving eye box. This allows for a high degree of efficiency in red dot-style shooting, keeping both eyes open for fast target acquisition in a variety of positions and circumstances that no other prism scope can touch. The 1X Compact Prism Scope’s included 1913 MIL STD Picatinny rail mount is removable, and the scope body is compatible with industry standard microdot mounts.Features:Silver-rated by the NTOA!Glass etched reticle that works with illumination on or offPartial reticle illumination with 11 brightnessCR2032 battery provides up to 13,000 hours of reticle illumination at medium settingsForgiving eye box with nearly 4” of eye relief, and a bright 13mm exit pupilPatented ACSS Cyclops reticle provides fast target acquisition, range estimation, and moving target leads out to 400 yards.Quick adjust diopter ring for shooter-optimized reticle focus½ MOA click adjustments with capped turretsCompact design at just 4” long and 9.7 ouncesUses industry standard microdot mountsWide 76.3-yard field of view at 100 yardsDurable design for fog resistant, waterproof, and shock proof operationBlack hardcoat anodized finishProtected by a lifetime warrantyAt the heart of the 1X Compact Prism Scope is the new etched-glass ACSS Cyclops reticle. A heavy horseshoe makes rapid acquisition and reflex sight style snap shooting a breeze, especially when used in conjunction with the red reticle illumination. When speed is less important, the center chevron tip offers an infinitely precise point of aim that won’t cover the target, allowing for remarkable accuracy at long distances. Snap shots and precise hits aren’t the only tricks up this reticle’s sleeve, either! The edges of the horseshoe double as moving target leads, allowing for improved first shot hit probability on mobile targets. To account for the worst-case scenario, the etched reticle remains visible in black even when the scope loses power. Batteries are only needed for the full reticle illumination, giving you the flexibility of a high-contrast sight picture in the brightest of conditions.The etched ACSS reticle combined with the fast focus eyepiece make this optic an excellent option for shooters with astigmatism. Red dots simply project an LED beam that reflects off glass back towards the shooter’s eye. The smaller the dot size, the more difficult it can be for the brain to resolve the shape, especially when combined with eye issues. This can lead to shooters perceiving the red dot as starbursts, comet tails, and a host of other distracting or obtrusive shapes depending on the shooter’s eye. Etched reticles and prism scopes don’t have this problem, and by adjusting the fast focus ocular ring, a perfectly crisp view of the reticle can be achieved for anyone. A clear sight picture will lead to more confident hits and better accuracy at further distances than ever before.The 1X Prism Scope body is just as tough as the rest of the proven line of prism rifle scopes. During durability testing, the 1X Prism Scope outlived not one, but TWO piston-driven .308 Winchester rifles, selected specifically for their reputation for driving optics to failure. Combine that toughness with waterproof construction and nitrogen purging for fog resistance, and the 1X Prism Scope is an optic you can trust whether you’re a weekend plinker, a competitive ace, or a hunter in the field. Each optic is finished with a tough Type III hardcoat anodized black finish to keep your scope looking great for years.The Primary Arms 1X Prism Scope is shipped with a riser mount that results in a centerline height of 1.41”, the standard height of an AR-15 platform front sight. A low base (1.05” to centerline) is also available as an accessory, which is useful for mounting to an AK-47 or other rifle with a stock located lower than the optics rail. In addition to these two mounts, two spacers are available for purchase to accommodate different applications and shooter preferences. When used with the riser mount they will result in a height to center line of 1.535”and 1.64”.The 1X Prism Scope is compatible with all industry standard microdot style mounts, including QD options such as the popular American Defense AD-T1 series. When choosing a mount, note that the height from centerline of the scope to the surface where the mount attaches is .25” taller than a typical 20mm microdot. Therefore, if a mount normally results in a 20mm microdot sight height of 1.41”, installing it on the Primary Arms 1X prism scope will result in a taller height of 1.66”.See More

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnc9EdMv6m0

Also, you were (sorry Apple) using that EoTech wrong. You don't focus on the circle-dot, you focus on the target, and it clears right up. The grain when you focus on the reticle is an artifact of a true no-parallax, laser hologram, and is a non-issue when you're actually shooting at targets and focusing properly.

**drewthebrave** · 07-13-2020, 11:49 PM

Every optic is a compromise. Your goal of CQB speed, infinite eye relief, and zero magnification have significant tradeoffs, which will make it hard to be effective at long range. While you can definitely shoot targets at long range with irons or a red dot, it's going to be difficult without an effective reticle. For what you want, the reticle will be the biggest single factor that determines your effectiveness at range.

Originally posted by Croak View Post

Primary Arms Cyclops with ACSS BDC sounds like it might work for you.

Home

https://www.primaryarms.com/pa-1x-compact-prism-scope-with-acss-cyclops-reticle-black

DetailsAfter rigorous field testing, this optic has been given a Silver-tier rating by the National Tactical Officers Association.This Primary Arms rifle scope is part of the SLx optics line. SLx optics have built a reputation for innovation, reliability, and value. All SLx optics undergo rigorous field-testing during development to best serve you in any environment.The Primary Arms 1X Compact Prism Scope with ACSS Cyclops reticle combines the durability and flexibility of an etched reticle with the speed and ease of use of a red dot. Unlike most prism optics, the 1X Compact Prism Scope has a generous 3.7 inches of eye relief combined with a massive 13mm exit pupil to provide an exceptionally forgiving eye box. This allows for a high degree of efficiency in red dot-style shooting, keeping both eyes open for fast target acquisition in a variety of positions and circumstances that no other prism scope can touch. The 1X Compact Prism Scope’s included 1913 MIL STD Picatinny rail mount is removable, and the scope body is compatible with industry standard microdot mounts.Features:Silver-rated by the NTOA!Glass etched reticle that works with illumination on or offPartial reticle illumination with 11 brightnessCR2032 battery provides up to 13,000 hours of reticle illumination at medium settingsForgiving eye box with nearly 4” of eye relief, and a bright 13mm exit pupilPatented ACSS Cyclops reticle provides fast target acquisition, range estimation, and moving target leads out to 400 yards.Quick adjust diopter ring for shooter-optimized reticle focus½ MOA click adjustments with capped turretsCompact design at just 4” long and 9.7 ouncesUses industry standard microdot mountsWide 76.3-yard field of view at 100 yardsDurable design for fog resistant, waterproof, and shock proof operationBlack hardcoat anodized finishProtected by a lifetime warrantyAt the heart of the 1X Compact Prism Scope is the new etched-glass ACSS Cyclops reticle. A heavy horseshoe makes rapid acquisition and reflex sight style snap shooting a breeze, especially when used in conjunction with the red reticle illumination. When speed is less important, the center chevron tip offers an infinitely precise point of aim that won’t cover the target, allowing for remarkable accuracy at long distances. Snap shots and precise hits aren’t the only tricks up this reticle’s sleeve, either! The edges of the horseshoe double as moving target leads, allowing for improved first shot hit probability on mobile targets. To account for the worst-case scenario, the etched reticle remains visible in black even when the scope loses power. Batteries are only needed for the full reticle illumination, giving you the flexibility of a high-contrast sight picture in the brightest of conditions.The etched ACSS reticle combined with the fast focus eyepiece make this optic an excellent option for shooters with astigmatism. Red dots simply project an LED beam that reflects off glass back towards the shooter’s eye. The smaller the dot size, the more difficult it can be for the brain to resolve the shape, especially when combined with eye issues. This can lead to shooters perceiving the red dot as starbursts, comet tails, and a host of other distracting or obtrusive shapes depending on the shooter’s eye. Etched reticles and prism scopes don’t have this problem, and by adjusting the fast focus ocular ring, a perfectly crisp view of the reticle can be achieved for anyone. A clear sight picture will lead to more confident hits and better accuracy at further distances than ever before.The 1X Prism Scope body is just as tough as the rest of the proven line of prism rifle scopes. During durability testing, the 1X Prism Scope outlived not one, but TWO piston-driven .308 Winchester rifles, selected specifically for their reputation for driving optics to failure. Combine that toughness with waterproof construction and nitrogen purging for fog resistance, and the 1X Prism Scope is an optic you can trust whether you’re a weekend plinker, a competitive ace, or a hunter in the field. Each optic is finished with a tough Type III hardcoat anodized black finish to keep your scope looking great for years.The Primary Arms 1X Prism Scope is shipped with a riser mount that results in a centerline height of 1.41”, the standard height of an AR-15 platform front sight. A low base (1.05” to centerline) is also available as an accessory, which is useful for mounting to an AK-47 or other rifle with a stock located lower than the optics rail. In addition to these two mounts, two spacers are available for purchase to accommodate different applications and shooter preferences. When used with the riser mount they will result in a height to center line of 1.535”and 1.64”.The 1X Prism Scope is compatible with all industry standard microdot style mounts, including QD options such as the popular American Defense AD-T1 series. When choosing a mount, note that the height from centerline of the scope to the surface where the mount attaches is .25” taller than a typical 20mm microdot. Therefore, if a mount normally results in a 20mm microdot sight height of 1.41”, installing it on the Primary Arms 1X prism scope will result in a taller height of 1.66”.See More

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnc9EdMv6m0

Also, you were (sorry Apple) using that EoTech wrong. You don't focus on the circle-dot, you focus on the target, and it clears right up. The grain when you focus on the reticle is an artifact of a true no-parallax, laser hologram, and is a non-issue when you're actually shooting at targets and focusing properly.

Agree on the EOTech. When you use it in a course of fire (not on your couch), the grainy image disappears. EOTech has my favorite RDS reticle, though my Holosun 507 is pretty close.

The Cyclops reticle's first line below the circle/chevron equates a 700 yard holdover on my Strelok app with a 200 yard zero. That's a lot of empty space between your 50/200 yard aimpoint and your 700 yard aiming point.

I think the better option would be an Eotech EXPS3-4 reticle. Here's what I see with a 200 yard zero with American Gunner from my 18" Grendel:
EOTech 3-4.png

You can hate on EOTech all you want, but they're your best bet with the -4 reticle.

Honestly? I think you'd be better served with a 1-6x LPVO.

Having a hard time picking up CQC+BDC solution

Having a hard time picking up CQC+BDC solution

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