Aimpoint Pro?

[PeteDavis]

Any opinions of the Aimpoint Pro?

PD

[LRRPF52]

They are solid, proven RDSs meant for LEOs, with great battery life.

Size is the same as the old Comp Ms, but with better internals.

A lot of people have moved on to smaller RDSs though.

[PeteDavis]

Thank you. What are some of the smaller ones that are worth looking into?

PD

[Klem]

Pete,

I have one. Haven't used it for a long time because other optics are either more compact or useful.

The PRO are excellent quality and bomb-proof, but chunky by todays' standards. Originally sold as a budget police force Aimpoint. If you want a red dot for short range then I recommend shelling out a bit more for the more compact Aimpoint T2. If T2 then you'll need to source a mount (the PRO comes with an integrated QR mount). If shooting any further than 100 then an LPVO is way more useful and accurate. An illuminated LPVO can double as a red dot at close range, but with the option to zoom in for detail and distance.

[PeteDavis]

Many thanks.

PD

[cory]

I had one and really liked it. I only sold it after I got my hands on an Aimpoint M4s. The M4s has set on my home security system for the last 10 years and has remained on the entire time. I may have changed the battery once.

[LRRPF52]

Thank you. What are some of the smaller ones that are worth looking into?

PD

What is the intended use for the optic?

For close range/home defense, a RDS is ideal.

If you live out where I do, distance comes into play really fast, so I’ve been big on LPVOs and 2.5-10x variable scopes on all my Grendels.

[PeteDavis]

I like to use the rifle at ranges up to 125 yards. I wonder if the dot can get a 1" group at 100. I know people hunt with these sighting systems. Nothing precludes having the scope and mount along with the dot. It's a rapid switch/changeover. PD

[SDW]

I wonder if the dot can get a 1" group at 100.

Interesting question. Probably depends largely on your skill. Can you shoot 1" groups with an iron sight setup now? That's assuming the rifle and ammo are capable of sub-MOA of course.

One issue is that the smallest dot in any RDS I know of is ~2 MOA. So you'd be holding a 2" opaque circle over your 100-yd target. Might be a little difficult with the circle being twice the size of the group you're trying to make. But I think that it's possible, statistically. You could shoot some 1" 5-shot groups if your your hold is steady enough.

If you want a more precise sight of similar nature, look at an Eotech. They at least have a 1 MOA center dot.

[Old Bob]

I have an Aimpoint Patrol Rifle Optic on my M4 clone. It will shoot around 1.5-1.75" @ 100yd with MK262, 77gr ammo if I can hold it steady enough. Most times, I'm right at 2 inches or just a hair over. It has a 16" Critireon 1:8 barrel with a 223 Wylde chamber. M193 (what I normally shoot) usually gets groups around 2.25-2.5". With the Aimpoint, the max I've shot this rifle is 200M with ~99% hits on steel. I've been tempted to change to a LPVO scope to see if I can tighten my groups but haven't yet - probably won't. I just changed the battery for the first time on my Aimpoint after almost 6 years. Had to turn it up all the way up to 9 to see the dot. That's pretty good battery life.

[SDW]

I have an Aimpoint Patrol Rifle Optic on my M4 clone. It will shoot around 1.5-1.75" @ 100yd with MK262, 77gr ammo if I can hold it steady enough. Most times, I'm right at 2 inches or just a hair over. It has a 16" Critireon 1:8 barrel with a 223 Wylde chamber. M193 (what I normally shoot) usually gets groups around 2.25-2.5". With the Aimpoint, the max I've shot this rifle is 200M with ~99% hits on steel. I've been tempted to change to a LPVO scope to see if I can tighten my groups but haven't yet - probably won't. I just changed the battery for the first time on my Aimpoint after almost 6 years. Had to turn it up all the way up to 9 to see the dot. That's pretty good battery life.

I think that might prove my point. It's hard even with a great barrel and ammo to shoot super precise with a red dot. I'm not knocking your ~1.5" groups either. I consider that to be very good! I wonder if you'd do better with iron sights and a narrow "match" front site there. It'd be interesting to throw a magnified optic on there to see what your rifle's actually capable of. I bet it'll shoot under and inch at 100.

I have one of the original BCM 16-inch "Recce" barrels on one of my uppers. Made of 410 SS, 1:8 twist also, with a 5.56 chamber as I recall. Rumor has always been that these barrels are made by Criterion, same as yours. Here are a couple 100-yd targets I shot from about four weeks ago out in the desert. Couple of handloads I've been wanting to try. Two different but similar bullets with the same power load and primers.

75gr Hornady HPBT and 77gr SMK, both on 23.7gr of TAC. WMR primers. For the optic, i was just using my Delta Stryker 1-6x (at 6x). It's DGMR model with the fine reticle and small red center dot. Per the mfr, the dot itself has a dia of 0.11 MRad, which "covers 1.1 cm @ 100 meters". That translates to a dot less of about 0.4" dia at 100 yds.

So as it turned out, this made it pretty easy for me to shoot these small groups. I was actually surprised at how well the setup works for precision on what I consider a "tactical" upper.

As an aside and totally off topic, I found it interesting how much the zero shifted between these two, below. I fired them about 10 minutes apart, with 77smk group fired first, so the barrel had some time to cool. The zero for the 75 Hndy was about an inch lower. Maybe a little lower.

75grHdy_wTac_green16.jpg

77grSmk_wTac_green16.jpg

[SDW]

And to illustrate the issue with a red dot a little further, the green opaque circle here shows approx what a 2 MOA dot would cover at 100 yds. If you could hold this dot (nearly) perfectly centered in the red diamond, you could make nice groups, with the right combo of rifle and ammo. Tricky to do at 1x though for most people. And that would include myself.

So I guess to try respond simply to Pete's pondering, "I wonder if the dot can get a 1" group at 100", if you want to stick with a RDS like the PRO, and want to be able to shoot tight groups more reliably, also get a 3x magnifier. That'll make it much easier to see the target. Just my own opinion.


greendot2moa.jpg

[Old Bob]

SDW ... My 20" Lilja barreled AR (223Wylde/1:8) with a 1-6X Primary Arms LPVO scope will consistently shoot groups like the ones you posted. When I had a 4-16X scope on it, the same rifle shot half-inch groups regularly with the M262 ammo when set to 10X. I'm pretty certain my 16" AR will shoot tight groups as well with a higher magnification scope.

With diamond shaped targets like the one you posted (3" from point-to-point) they are basically obliterated when looking through my Aimpoint. What I've been using were the round Birchwood Casey Sight-N-C 6" targets. I try to center the dot as well as I can which is still difficult without any magnification at 100yds. IDK ... maybe I could do better with iron sights. Never gave it a thought before. I always shot my M1 & M1A pretty well with iron sights. Shot expert with my M14 when I was in the Army but I was 18Y.O. back then. I'll be 77 in August.

[SDW]

I believe it Bob, about that rifle. Regarding being able to shoot well with iron sights, I didn't want to go to far off on that discussion, but being able to do it well is largely age related. I didn't peg you for a kid or a novice.

I used to be a decent shot with irons at one time. But age-wise I'm only 11 years behind you. So my 'sharpshooting' days are over. Eyesight's gone a bit downhill. I have corrective corrective lenses but I can't focus on the front sight post anymore. So the only thing I do with irons anymore is have fun with my old Marlin .22 levergun, shooting at steel. It's got the factory front bead and a rear Lyman peep. Same thing to a lesser extent with my Marlin 1894.

On the targets, maybe the PRO dot's actual size is a little bigger than 2 moa then? One thing I just remembered from shooting with my Vortex RDS, which also has a 2 MOA dot, the dot seemed a bit smaller if I cranked the power down. Might even be a rule of thumb for user of RDS to adjust the power down when making longer shots?

I have a Primary Arms 1x prism sight on one AR. I haven't gotten it out to the desert to try for groups with it yet, but it's got an itty bitty chevron shape as the reticle center, so I hope I can put its point in the center of the 10 ring and make decent groups.

[Old Bob]

LOL ...likewise, I didn't think of you as a youngster either. Had cataract surgery a couple of years ago so I only need glasses for reading. My long range, unaided vision is OK but not perfect. I have some issues with bright sunshine so I wear shades most of the time outdoors. I have a Vortex StrikeFire 1x, 4MOA RDS on a .22LR AR. I only use it for plinking. It's nowhere near a precision rifle but it's still fun for shooting cans & stuff at 25-50yds. Hmmm ... maybe next time at the range, I'll turn the power down a notch to see if it makes a difference on group sizes.