Anyone have the new Nightforce Beast?

[Gamecock84]

http://nightforceoptics.com/beast/

I would hate to spend the money but I am leaning for a very good FFP scope. Anybody have experience with this new model? Any other suggestions in FFP for some long range shooting/hunting?

Thanks,

Ryan

[Drifter]

...I am leaning for a very good FFP scope... Any other suggestions in FFP for some long range shooting/hunting?

No experience with the Beast, but the listed weight is a turnoff for me. (Nothing personal against NF, as I own an F1 3-15x.)

Take a look at the March 3-24x FFP at ~1 pound less than the Beast. It's a smallish scope with big performance:

http://marchscopes.com/tactical-3-24-x-42-ffp.html

[Gamecock84]

Never heard of this company......what say you about quality of glass, light transmission, etc?

[Gamecock84]

beautiful rifle by the way!

[Drifter]

Check these articles for some thorough reviews on the March and other premium optics:

http://opticsthoughts.com/index.php/rifle-scopes/4-rifle-scope-reviews/81-high-end-tactical-scopes-part-ii

http://opticsthoughts.com/index.php/rifle-scopes/4-rifle-scope-reviews/98-high-end-tactical-scopes-part-3

Also check the snipershide forum for discussion on March, the Beast, etc:

http://forum.snipershide.com/snipers-hide-rifle-scopes/

[Gamecock84]

So here is what I am down to. A lot of the higher end tactical scopes are just too damn heavy for this hunting rifle I am building. I do like the March scope you suggested in a FFP. However, If I could get a Swarovski Z6i 3-18x50 WITH the new ballistic turret for essentially the same price, which would you choose? The turret takes away the guess work for ranges and with the simple 4A reticle it seems would lead to fast target acquisition without much "busyness". I understand its a SFP with no increasing magnification of the reticle?? Swaro is proven glass for a very long time. March has really good reviews but could the glass compare to Swaro?

Thanks,

Ryan

[Gamecock84]

Sorry double posted

[Drifter]

Swarovski glass is good stuff; no doubt about it.

But where are all the serious long-range tactical-style shooters using Swaro scopes? From what I've been able to gather, Swaro has not earned a reputation for consistent and repeatable turret adjustments. Granted, I'm repeating hearsay and not firsthand experience, but I didn't want to take a chance on a $2k or $3k purchase.

And to be fair, March is a relatively new kid on the block in the tactical arena. But I found enough evidence on the 'net to make me feel confident about a purchase.

The general consensus for long-range shooting in the field is an FFP reticle and matching turrets, with mil-mil being the most popular. (Moa-moa is fine if that's how your brain clicks, pun intended.) Regardless of power, quick range estimation and quick holdovers are possible. For example, let's assume a situation where there isn't sufficient time to use a laser rangefinder, and then also dial up for a shot. If the body of a mature whitetail buck in my local area measures ~1 mil, I know that he's approximately 400 yards away, and I'll need a ~2.0-mil holdover (with a 200-yard hunting zero using 123gr bullets in the Grendel), regardless of scope power. Not sure that a ballistic reticle in SFP can work as well. (Of course, larger or smaller than a mil, meaning the deer is closer or further than 400, the shot will require some adjustment. But that 400-yard example serves as a good baseline for me.)

With FFP combined with matching turrets, you can dial up, hold over, or a combination of both. If my target is 600 yards, and I need 4.4 mils of elevation, I can dial up 4 clicks (0.1 mil per click), then hold on the 4-mil line in the reticle, and still get very precise results regardless of scope power. Again, not sure that a ballistic reticle in SFP has such versatility.

Wanna share that high-dollar scope among two or more rifles? It's another reason that those turret adjustments better be repeatable if there isn't time to confirm the zero differences. And when there is a need to re-zero, it's often a 1-shot affair with matching reticle and turrets. Simply measure the distance between POI and POA with the reticle, then adjust the turrets accordingly.

Also, pay close attention to reticle subtensions. A thin reticle works well for target shooting, but can be difficult to pick up quickly in some hunting situations. A thicker hunting reticle isn't so good for target shooting. You need to determine what works best as a compromise for your application, so that your money is spent wisely. Having previously owned an IOR scope with MP-8 reticle, I knew that March's FML-1 would be ideal for me.

The March isn't perfect. With 24x-power and only a 42mm objective, the exit pupil is small. Thus, the eye box is a little unforgiving over 18x, and light transmission suffers as well. Solution: dial down the power. Also, the written warranty is only five years, but supposedly this is due to laws in the country of manufacture, while indication is that the US distributor will take care of its customers well beyond the warranty period. Items that I consider attributes on the March include glass quality (outstanding), size and weight, reticle style, 0.1-mil clicks with 10 mils of elevation per turn, easy-to-set zero stop, side parallax, illumination quality, and power range.

As you have discovered, choices are somewhat limited for scopes with premium glass tailored for long range that are reasonable in weight. Everyone's weight threshold will be different. For me, a Grendel package in the 11# to 11.25# range is okay, but heavier than that becomes real noticeable real fast. A 2.5# scope is just too much, and even a 2# scope is pushing it for me.

As you might guess, I have no vested interest in whichever scope you choose. Makes no difference to me, as I'm simply trying to help you make the right choice for you. If that means a Swaro, so be it. But I would encourage you to spend some time on the links I shared in my previous post. Figure out what works for everyone else, then apply that knowledge to your own application so that you make the best choice.

Good luck!

[Gamecock84]

Thanks a lot Drifter. I will take your advice into consideration. The ballistic turrets are attractive on the Swaro but I can see the advantages of the FFP especially with unknown distances.

[waveslayer]

So here is what I am down to. A lot of the higher end tactical scopes are just too damn heavy for this hunting rifle I am building. I do like the March scope you suggested in a FFP. However, If I could get a Swarovski Z6i 3-18x50 WITH the new ballistic turret for essentially the same price, which would you choose? The turret takes away the guess work for ranges and with the simple 4A reticle it seems would lead to fast target acquisition without much "busyness". I understand its a SFP with no increasing magnification of the reticle?? Swaro is proven glass for a very long time. March has really good reviews but could the glass compare to Swaro?

Thanks,

Ryan

I have the Swar Z6I in 5-30X 50mm and a few Night Force. I would go with the Night Force if you are doing long range anything. I have the custom Turrets on my Swarovski... well like any Ballistic Calculator they are not always 100% correct once you leave 300 yards! So be careful trusting it too much, you have to shoot it and see where your shots land past 300 using the custom Turrets.

As for the BEAST, I played with it and Yes I would own a few of those if i had the money. If your rifle is for only hunting then I don't know what I would do. Both are a great Glass, Swarovski is awesome, especailly for hunting, but for just long range, NF for sure!

[Gamecock84]

Good to know waveslayer. Truthfully the more I think about it the more I think I want the BEAST. Once I go home I won't have to lug this rifle long distances and I can cut a lb off the stock weight making the scope weight negligible. This scope is supposed to be the end all.

[Gamecock84]

Well guys I ended up with a Nightforce. The weight of the BEAST and possible availability turned me off. I was considering the March but availability is also sketchy for the model I wanted plus the Nightforce had a bigger objective for better light gathering. So, I ended up with the NXS 3.5x15x50 F1 with the NP-R1 reticle. Hope its awesome!

Ryan

[Drifter]

I think you'll be happy. My F1 has been foolproof.

[Gamecock84]

Drifter, what is the advantage of using the big larue mounts instead of the nightforce lightweight rings that come with the scope?

[Drifter]

When scoping an AR-15, pay close attention to the two things: scope height and eye relief. For height, the centerline of the scope needs to be ~1.5" above the rail. Eye relief seems simple enough, but you want the mount to be in contact with only the upper receiver (and not the handguard). The AR-specific cantilever-style mounts from LaRue, ADM, Bobro, etc are designed to address both aspects (height and eye relief), and many models have a quick-detach feature that return-to-zero amazingly well when removed and replaced.

The rings that come with a Nightforce scope are too low for the AR-15 without some type of riser. Nightforce offers an AR-type cantilever mount, though I don't think they have a QD feature (which may or may not be desirable for you).