in a nutshell, can we have short barreled arm supports?

[dammitman]

its a simple question, i cannot find a latest news on whether its legal to have a shorter than 16 inch barreled rifle with a whats called an arm support? lets find out

[Konocti's Wigwam]

its a simple question, i cannot find a latest news on whether its legal to have a shorter than 16 inch barreled rifle with a whats called an arm support? lets find out

I think there are a lot of variables. What state you reside in, what the law on SBRs are in your state, are you a member of FPC, SAF or CRPA ? (those were covered under the Garland case in TX)

I have 2 configurations for 6.5 Grendel, the first is a 16" barrel version. The 2nd is a 12" barrel on an AR pistol. I was pondering this last night and came to the conclusion that if you do indeed have a pistol with an AR, there should be no reason you can't have a pistol grip, or other "evil features".

At the end of the day I see it all as an infringement against our 2A rights provided to "we the people" in the Bll of Rights. IANAL!

In California we're not allowed to have NFA items, so it's not clear how having a brace would play out in court. I feel this is all on the verge of changing nation wide, there are that many cases going on that would effect it right now.

[lazyengineer]

Status is still under review, and so is temporarily authorized pending that. At present a judge in Texas has said this is not a valid ruling, and that arm-brace equipped handguns are legal, hence the ready availability still. There is potential for that to change, though we shall see. I personally consider it uncertain enough that I wouldn't advise going down that road. Not 10 minutes ago I helped a guy at work order his first AR15, and I suggested for now, to just stick with the 16" to keep it simple.

but yes, you can legally purchase, own, and fire an armbraced short barreled AR-15 "pistol". The detail many people don't pay attention to, is that is if it's actually a pistol. If the firearm was purchased and made and intended to be shoulder fired, it's not a pistol - it's a shoulder fired SBR - and it's not registered. Enforcement on that to date has been quite low, but I would have a care posting video's documenting your usage as a shoulder fired arm at this time.

All that said - at the same time, I consider a 12" 6.5Grendel the most compact power package on the planet. That's an incredible performance machine with good long legs in a total size that's nothing short of mindboggling. Many folks host a supressor on that, but personally, I have good ear-pro; and value the shorter overall package of just running it as a 12", over the advantages of adding a suppressor that makes it into a notably longer system. FWIW, my 12" is registered as an SBR now, and I run a real stock on it, and quite love it like that, and don't have to worry about looking over my shoulder when firing it or talking about it. It pounds the 500 yard gongs all day just fine.

Understood that option isn't so easy for everybody. As a general purpose build, the 14.5 pin and weld is my primary hunting version, and also a very handy length.

[Konocti's Wigwam]

This might or might not help, just posted.

[dammitman]

thanks for all the info, i kinda thought it was still legal but in a cloudy world of upcoming decisions. i have a 458 SOCOM 12 inch barreled pistol that i really should have just registered and use a decent stock on. its a real confidence builder and makes firing other rifles seem easier.

[Konocti's Wigwam]

thanks for all the info, i kinda thought it was still legal but in a cloudy world of upcoming decisions. i have a 458 SOCOM 12 inch barreled pistol that i really should have just registered and use a decent stock on. its a real confidence builder and makes firing other rifles seem easier.

DISCLAIMER: IANAL, I'm just some guy past his prime on the Internet.

That said, the fact you have a pistol is important. If you transferred the lower as a pistol lower or made it yourself as one is important as in the past the ATF has said that a Rifle lower can't be converted to a pistol. How true is that, I do not know, and again IANAL.

My take is they have still not clarified the AR pistol, I see you're in Kentucky...heck, I'm in California. You're in a free state compared to me.

Also, my take is that we're allowed to use a pistol grip on a pistol. I do have a couple braces, but not using them at this time. I don't know if I will use them hunting. I think it's best for me to use cheek welds until more is clarified.

Alan

[MrDraco]

Also, my take is that we're allowed to use a pistol grip on a pistol.

Depends on the style of the grip. A vertical grip is not legal on a AR pistol but a angled grip is. Why the ATF made this distinction I have no clue.

[Konocti's Wigwam]

Depends on the style of the grip. A vertical grip is not legal on a AR pistol, but a angled grip is. Why the ATF made this distinction, I have no clue.

I believe this will all be taken care of in time. Of course, it's safest to use a 16" barrel, but in theory, you can't have a pistol grip on a <cough> assault weapon.

You're falling for their game, just like the majority has done for years. If nobody stands up against the infringement, nobody will. Once and for all, we need to end all the infringements. My father (R.I.P.) never had to register any guns, or jump through any hoops, although he was born in '37, so he was infringed his whole life over the NFA, just like me. There was a time in California that we never had to register firearms of any type. It actually wasn't that long ago, certainly not as long as the NFA infringements were implemented.

Isn't this a joke? We're wondering if we can have a pistol grip on a pistol. It's not up to the ATF to determine what is or is not legal, they only enforce the law, they do not create it.

Dettelbach has his head in his @$$, if you ask me. He doesn't decide what the law is. He will try to get the SCOTUS to abide to his wishes, but he doesn't create the law.

We'll see what happens, but it looks like the whole AWB is blowing up in their face, as is the military blowing up on Brandon. I just saw that new recruits were down 41,000~ last year because no citizens want to fight. Brandon is trying to pass a bill that will allow immigrants to serve in the military to receive citizenship. I think that will blow up on them also, the immigrants are not loyal to Brandon. Again, time will tell.

Alan

PS - I'll defend this country until I die, on our soil. I won't go overseas (I'm too old anyway) for any tyrannical government. If the Chinese or Russians come onto our soil, I'll be defending my own family, not Brandon's. The Chinese only shoot unarmed citizens, very manly country I might add.

[LRRPF52]

In my State, the legislature passed a law banning local and State LEOs from assisting the Feds in enforcement of unconstitutional Federal firearms infringements, and we are a Firearms Freedom Act State on top of that.

The Federal agencies (who have no mention or enumerated powers in the Constitution) declare that they have supremacy, but the Bill of Rights has supremacy over them, especially since they have no legal basis to even exist.

There is no DOJ in the Constitution, and yet it metastasized into a 115,000 employee force of secret police agencies under the umbrella of the DOJ, which evolved out of the part-time Attorney General’s position established by the Founders.

After the Civil War, lawsuits filed against the US were coming in from States and parties seeking relief from damages and infringements, so Congress made the AG a full-time position, established an Assistant AG, and a US Solicitor General to deal with the onslaught of lawsuits.

During the Progressive Era of Marxists and Socialists contaminating our Government with their anti-American ideas, the administrative state grew outwards at a rapid pace to where it is today.

People erroneously believe that the administrative state is a legitimate set of institutions that follow US law, when they are blatantly in direct violation of it just by showing up to work.

[Konocti's Wigwam]

In my State, the legislature passed a law banning local and State LEOs from assisting the Feds in enforcement of unconstitutional Federal firearms infringements, and we are a Firearms Freedom Act State on top of that.

That's kind of interesting, and I doubt something like that would be considered in California, although several LEO have said they will not enforce Captain Hairdo's tyranny.

In California, the bigger problem is that we have a handgun roster which pretty much prevents people from owning modern handguns, and they remove 3 handguns every time a new one is added. That may have been ruled unconstitutional, I'm not sure at the moment. There are many LEOs that buy off roster handguns, bring them into the state (LEOs can legally do that), and sell them private party to people. That corruption needs to stop.

The Federal agencies (who have no mention or enumerated powers in the Constitution) declare that they have supremacy, but the Bill of Rights has supremacy over them, especially since they have no legal basis to even exist.

This has been the case for a while, but we don't see the law changing too quickly, do we?

There is no DOJ in the Constitution, and yet it metastasized into a 115,000 employee force of secret police agencies under the umbrella of the DOJ, which evolved out of the part-time Attorney General’s position established by the Founders.

This need to end, period.

After the Civil War, lawsuits filed against the US were coming in from States and parties seeking relief from damages and infringements, so Congress made the AG a full-time position, established an Assistant AG, and a US Solicitor General to deal with the onslaught of lawsuits.

But they tried to take away the firearms from the black people, it was completely racist from the start.

People erroneously believe that the administrative state is a legitimate set of institutions that follow US law, when they are blatantly in direct violation of it just by showing up to work.

Agreed, but not ALL people, as I don't believe that. In fact, I'm one of the people willing to fight. Even if I never get my 2A rights, I want my son to have them in his life. Of course, I want the world to be around for him to enjoy also, but that's another discussion.

That said, I see this being a very similar situation we saw in the middle east. Parent hated the Israelis more than they loved their own children? How can that be? I would kill myself if I ever sent one of my children in anywhere with a bomb strapped around them as a suicide bomber, that seems like a mental problem with the parents.

In comparison, we have people in America that hate Trump more than they love their own country. Nobody in their right mind can watch Mr. Magoo and feel he's fit to hold office, he walks like he's $#!TTing his depend diapers at the same time. I can't even believe I'm seeing this take place. Enough is enough. If the Dems cheat at the 2024 election, we could have a civil war, IMO.