08-11-2019, 02:59 PM
Double Naught Spy Wrote:We have lots of people who can carry guns by permits in may issue states and there are several states that do not require permits at all, yet the problem isn't the number of people who can carry, it is the number of people who actually do carry. It is only small fraction that actually do.
I will tell you what, montana, you want a way that will help, I will give you one to try and it won't depend on the kindness of strangers to fund it. All you need to do is to get the laws changed that will allow people with carry permits to not be excluded from carrying their guns on any property. That will require changes in the law not making landowners and employers liable in any way for actions that result from the discharge of said guns. Once people with carry permits are no longer barred from carrying in many places, a lot more will carry on a regular basis. I still don't think it will be any sort of deterrent, but it will make responses quicker when there are actually permit holders and other who are present and armed. Mandated training won't do a lot of good if people can't take their guns with them EVERYWHERE they go like cops. When they can't, gun management becomes a hassle and people just leave their guns at home. Of course, getting the laws changes is as insurmountable as getting ammo companies to donate free ammo for people to take federally mandated training.
Being Armed or unarmed, people have a right to choose, but forcing private property owners to allow armed citizens will never occur. This is some real pie in the sky thinking. There are establishments that wont allow cops on their property, so this is a non issue.
Double Naught Spy Wrote:Remember, it is not a solution if it doesn't work. It is just a response. With that said, mass shootings weren't solved by the presence of trained cops with guns, either. Not at the Detroit Police substation shooting (4 officers shot)
[video=youtube;P21rjGAuhBo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P21rjGAuhBo[/video],
the Las Vegas shooting, Tyler courthouse shooting, or the Dallas protest parade officer (and others) shooting. Of course, the finally used a bomb to blow up this shooter.
For mass shooters who don't plan to make it out alive, guns are NOT a deterrent and to suggest otherwise is naive.
Yup, a lot of crazy people in the world. There will never be a total solution and it will only be a response. Stephen Willford responded and stopped Devin Kelley with his personal AR-15.https://sanantonioteaparty.us/14541-2/ . Micah Xavier Johnson was not the first person to be stopped with a bomb, "in 1985 Philadelphia" the authorities dropped a bomb on a group of black liberation movement's residence. https://mashable.com/2016/01/10/1985-move-bombing/
I grew up with this guy and was good friends with his brother.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayne_Nance
I was also good friends with Ned and was in a Martial arts with him when this piece of work murdered him and his wife.http://www.clarkprosecutor.org/html/deat...ord441.htm
I have other personal stories I wont bore you with. The history of our 2ndA is a history of compromise with give and take. One thing I do know, "as gun owners" we better come up with a plan the average non shooting citizen will feel comfortable with or we will lose our gun rights. .