Glass quality trumps magnification, but 400 meters is iron sight territory as well. For the Special Operations Target Interdiction Course POI, the first block of marksmanship training was shooting with the Palma sights on the M24 at...400m. If you couldn't group within 1.5 MOA, you would get some more one-on-one training to fix it. I was surprised at how well I could group with irons and that rifle with M118.
Eotechs are popular on carbines in SOF units because of profile, FOV, and such a small aiming point in the center of the reticle. Clip-on magnifier units are a no-go from an infantryman perspective because of the snag hazard factor, at least for me.
One little optic I like is the 1-4x GRSC, but it does not have daylight visible illumination by any stretch of the imagination. The reticle is great though.
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1 kg = 2.2lb = 1000g
700 grams = 1.54lbs
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LRRPF52 Wrote:.. Clip-on magnifier units are a no-go from an infantryman perspective because of the snag hazard factor, at least for me...
Valid point. However, if I'm running a 1-x optic, I'm likely running 45 degree offset iron sights or maybe an rmr. The 45 degree front sight seems like it'd present more or equal snag hazard than the clip on magnifier.
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cory Wrote:Valid point. However, if I'm running a 1-x optic, I'm likely running 45 degree offset iron sights or maybe an rmr. The 45 degree front sight seems like it'd present more or equal snag hazard than the clip on magnifier.
Of course you can spend the three bills and get one of those flip out 45 deg can't irons.
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cory Wrote:1 kg = 2.2lb = 1000g
700 grams = 1.54lbs Thanks. I thought I had to be doing the conversion wrong. Somehow I latched onto 15.43 grams = 1 ounce.
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KentuckyBuddha Wrote:Of course you can spend the three bills and get one of those flip out 45 deg can't irons.
At the moment I'm running magpul buis on a couple weaver 45 degree offset mounts. Just over $100. Now I would prefer the $260 diamondhead 45 degree offset sights.
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stanc Wrote:The features do look good, but weight is listed as 700 grams. If I converted correctly, that's nearly three pounds. Seems pretty heavy. 
700 grams is closer to 1.5 pounds, but still substantial.
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KentuckyBuddha Wrote:Of course you can spend the three bills and get one of those flip out 45 deg can't irons.
I have several cant mounts that I have flirted with the idea of throwing a red-dot on. But yhea, for me the diamond ones for me are CAN'T irons. : ) Even if I won the Warren Buffet March Madness billion dollar sweepstakes I am still not sure that would be what I would prefer, but for me the snag issue is unlikely to ever be of life or death significance.
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You could get a 4x Acog with the DR. sight on top.
I wouldn't say this is optimal since the DR is mounted so high up but it will get the job done.
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LRRPF52 Wrote:One little optic I like is the 1-4x GRSC... Discontinued. http://www.grscinc.com/crs.html
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I tried flip magnifiers, and I didn't like them. I tried Dr. Optic dots on top, side, and canted. I didn't like them either. I'd try the Elcan Specter in a heartbeat if I could afford it, but I can't.
I have aimpoints on a bunch of stuff, but use two Acogs on GP guns. I have Nightforces on long range stuff.
If I had to live with one general purpose carbine, I'd keep my M150 for now. If I had the scratch I'd jump to the Elcan though.
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I have the grms scope. Very bright for daytime. Retical works for my 7.62 NATO out to 600.
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I took my TA31f to the range this last saturday and forgot my duct tape. The chevron was so bright that it covered up my 2" orange targets at 200 yards.
The ACOGs are a great compromise all around, but I think we can do better.
Eventually, I'm going to pick up an HHS I and do a direct side by side comparison.
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waveslayer Wrote:How about the VCOG?
I started to get excited (especially with a single AA batt), but then the price smashed me in the face. It doesn't even have fiber illum. If I had that kind of scratch, I'd just suck it up and get the Elcan.
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cory Wrote:I took my TA31f to the range this last saturday and forgot my duct tape. The chevron was so bright that it covered up my 2" orange targets at 200 yards.
The ACOGs are a great compromise all around, but I think we can do better.
Eventually, I'm going to pick up an HHS I and do a direct side by side comparison.
I agree. I keep waiting for someone to find a way around Elcans patents (I'm guessing that's the roadblock) and offer something very similar to the SpecterDR, but at a price that us mere mortals could afford. I can't glass a whole rack of boomsticks at these insane price levels. Surely somebody can come up with something equivalent eventually?
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LRRPF52 Wrote:Glass quality trumps magnification, but 400 meters is iron sight territory as well. For the Special Operations Target Interdiction Course POI, the first block of marksmanship training was shooting with the Palma sights on the M24 at...400m. If you couldn't group within 1.5 MOA, you would get some more one-on-one training to fix it. I was surprised at how well I could group with irons and that rifle with M118.
Eotechs are popular on carbines in SOF units because of profile, FOV, and such a small aiming point in the center of the reticle. Clip-on magnifier units are a no-go from an infantryman perspective because of the snag hazard factor, at least for me.
One little optic I like is the 1-4x GRSC, but it does not have daylight visible illumination by any stretch of the imagination. The reticle is great though.
Have you heard anything more about the Minox 1-8X you mentioned after SHOT? You piqued my interest on that one. It'll probably be out of my price range, but I can dream I guess. 
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cory Wrote:I took my TA31f to the range this last saturday and forgot my duct tape. The chevron was so bright that it covered up my 2" orange targets at 200 yards.
The ACOGs are a great compromise all around, but I think we can do better.
Eventually, I'm going to pick up an HHS I and do a direct side by side comparison.
Check out the Browe Combat Optic if you are looking for an improvement on the ACOG. It measures the light at
the target and adjusts the brightness of it's chevron or crosshairs so you have the correct brightness and do not wash out your aiming point.
About the same cost as the ACOG. I am really thinking about getting one for my FS2000. I am looking at
something like a 2-8 or 2-10 for my next Grendel. I like the FS2000 for my CQB or house gun and the Grendel will be more a DMR.
http://www.browe-inc.com/categories/4x32...%28BCO%29/
Variable Wrote:Have you heard anything more about the Minox 1-8X you mentioned after SHOT? You piqued my interest on that one. It'll probably be out of my price range, but I can dream I guess.
I don't remember mentioning anything about Minox. Must have been someone else.
I didn't get to look at much in terms of optics at this year's SHOT. I had a lot of appointments with people on things related to Grendel.
My biggest issues with ACOG's are the eye relief, way too short, and exit pupil, way too small. They make great robust scopes for soldiers for general issue that take a beating, but are not preferred by trained shooters when the option of a variable power is there.
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