SST Frags and has so-so lethality. Thinking GMX, but maybe not a great idea

[johnhefley]

I've killed a lot of deer with 123 grain Hornady SST's. There are two problems: First, the SST tends to really fragment. Badly. Sure, I've bang-flopped 'em, mostly when the fragments hit the spinal cord.

But vitals shots? Not so much. Small entrance wound, no exit wound, and therefore, no blood trail. And they don't just drop with a lung shot, I don't care what anybody says.

I've had SST's just rip through the tissue on opposite shoulders, ruining meat as well.

I hit a hog back in December with TWO SST's. The first was a lung shot (no exit), and the second while she spun and ran clipped her in the back of the neck (I won't call that one a great kill shot. But as follow-ups on a running animal, I'll take it).

The hog was found the next day burrowed under some scrub brush, still alive.

I've complained to Hornady before about the SST's. The first time, they told me that the're designed to fragment. Hmmm..... The second time, I was told that they just have "low weight retention" - about 65%. I'm not so sure they even retain THAT much weight.

So the most recent call had the rep recommending GMX bullets, saying that they're designed for 95% weight retention. So stupid me, I bought a bunch of GMX's without really studying what I was getting. It turns out that you've got to REALLY move a GMX bullet FAST!!!! to get them to mushroom out. In fact, you've got to move them WAY faster that I think you can push a Grendel.

RickOshea has nicely posted a thread on the behavior of a variety of lead-free projectiles. And his pics pretty much mirror what I gathered elsewhere. That is, unless you push that bullet above 2700 fps (better if 3000 fps), it just isn't going to mushroom out. And God forbid if it drops below 2000 fps. Might as well be shooting ball ammo!!!!

So tell me horde, did I just screw up (again) buying the wrong reloading component (6.5mm GMX) for my Grendel? I don't think I've ever pushed a bullet out faster than about 2400 fps from my AA 6.5 Grendel lightweight. AND, the GMX is such a long bullet, I'm not sure you could get enough powder in the case to even push them THAT fast!!!! Of course, the usual cautions apply about overcharging, overpressure, etc.

So bottom line: Are any other members of the Horde loading and shooting GMX bullets? If so, what muzzle velocities are you able to achieve? And how is the bullet performing on deer and/or hogs?

jh

[Troutguide]

Thanks for posting this question. I have read lots of information on the SST, GMX,... and am not sold on the best bullet for hunting. I know many kills have been attributed to the SST but I am still not convinced for Whitetail. Hogs I am going for a head/neck shot every time as I don't want to track but I am a believer in right behind the shoulder for deer and I want two holes for a blood trail, I hunt thick stuff and don't want to loose an animal. I don't want to risk a neck shot and I don't want to destroy a lot of meat with a shoulder shot so they are going to run a bit typically. I hope someone has good answers because I don't.

[johnhefley]

That hog was trotting pretty quickly for the first shot. I know my limitations, so I didn't want to attempt a head shot on a running animal. If it'd been standing still. I'dve put it behind her ear.

I wouldn't ever recommend the SST's for hunting at this point. I'll burn up the remainder of mine at the range.

jh

[LRRPF52]

SneakyOne has been cutting 120gr GMX down to lower weights for fast speeds.

I've used them and tested at 2800fps from my 17.6" Grendel.

Shot them into hard timber. They definitely expanded and retained 99% of their weight, only shedding the plastic tip.

He has made anywhere from 77gr to 105gr with them.

I loaded up the 94gr for my elk hunt in 2015, but never got an opportunity for a shot. My plan was to keep it within 300yds, but I was up above 9000 feet elevation too where the air is really thin.

I wasn't worried about performance after what I've seen with it.

You can also load the 100gr Barnes TTSX pretty fast. That's a great hog and deer load if you want speed.

With CFE or LVR under one of the solids, you can get really fast speeds without pushing the pressure over 50ksi.

Several members here have had great results with 100gr TTSX, 120gr TSX, and 120gr TTSX.

Some other solids to consider are:

95gr Lehigh Defense Controlled Chaos
86gr GS Customs HV

For cup and core, look at 129gr Hornady Interbond, and 129gr Nosler Accubond Long Range.

A lot of animals have been killed with not only the 123gr SST, but the 123gr AMAX as well.

[johnhefley]

Thanks. I PM'd Sneaky.
jh

[pajasonc]

I've killed a lot of deer with 123 grain Hornady SST's. There are two problems: First, the SST tends to really fragment. Badly. Sure, I've bang-flopped 'em, mostly when the fragments hit the spinal cord.

But vitals shots? Not so much. Small entrance wound, no exit wound, and therefore, no blood trail. And they don't just drop with a lung shot, I don't care what anybody says.

I've had SST's just rip through the tissue on opposite shoulders, ruining meat as well.

I hit a hog back in December with TWO SST's. The first was a lung shot (no exit), and the second while she spun and ran clipped her in the back of the neck (I won't call that one a great kill shot. But as follow-ups on a running animal, I'll take it).

The hog was found the next day burrowed under some scrub brush, still alive.

I've complained to Hornady before about the SST's. The first time, they told me that the're designed to fragment. Hmmm..... The second time, I was told that they just have "low weight retention" - about 65%. I'm not so sure they even retain THAT much weight.

So the most recent call had the rep recommending GMX bullets, saying that they're designed for 95% weight retention. So stupid me, I bought a bunch of GMX's without really studying what I was getting. It turns out that you've got to REALLY move a GMX bullet FAST!!!! to get them to mushroom out. In fact, you've got to move them WAY faster that I think you can push a Grendel.

RickOshea has nicely posted a thread on the behavior of a variety of lead-free projectiles. And his pics pretty much mirror what I gathered elsewhere. That is, unless you push that bullet above 2700 fps (better if 3000 fps), it just isn't going to mushroom out. And God forbid if it drops below 2000 fps. Might as well be shooting ball ammo!!!!

So tell me horde, did I just screw up (again) buying the wrong reloading component (6.5mm GMX) for my Grendel? I don't think I've ever pushed a bullet out faster than about 2400 fps from my AA 6.5 Grendel lightweight. AND, the GMX is such a long bullet, I'm not sure you could get enough powder in the case to even push them THAT fast!!!! Of course, the usual cautions apply about overcharging, overpressure, etc.

So bottom line: Are any other members of the Horde loading and shooting GMX bullets? If so, what muzzle velocities are you able to achieve? And how is the bullet performing on deer and/or hogs?

jh

Yes the GMX is a poor choice for the 6.5 grendel. I have shot them out of a 308 and they don't expand much below 2400 fps. At 2400 they will open up to about 50 caliber(in a 308) At 2000 they don't open past 30 cal unless they hit something hard. The barnes ttsx actually expands at 2000 and opens pretty wide at 2400. Basically the ttsx needs about 200 fps less than the GMX. If you want two holes the 100 grain barnes ttsx will work at grendel velocities if you keep shots under 300 yards. A traditional soft point would be ideal for the grendel. The new fusion ammo should retain a bit more weight than the sst and still open up wide at 2000 and have a bit of expansion down to 1800.

[Drift]

Sorta agree with Johnhfley, sorta disagree. How big are the deer you shoot? Where do you hit them? What are your expectations on how far a heart shot deer can run?
I shot a deer last year through the heart...he had to run 300 yards..and heart was pulp!
For our small (<180 lb) deer the plastic tipped bullets are enough...But SST iffy on a Texas heart shot..Breaking the far side shoulder is always a good idea..and they are iffy on pigs..
I still use 120 gr Remington Core Loc and like them very much. They mushroom well, penetrate well; and are cheap. I hold MOA out past 300 yards with them.
I dont think I would use the GMX in 120 gr.

[kmon]

A few other options that will expand well at GRR velocities and still penetrate deep are:

Nosler Accubond LR 129gr high BC and bonded core that expands above 1300fps.
Nosler Partition in 100 or 125gr, impact velocities above 1800 these will expand and penetrate deep

Berger VLD Hunting 130gr Double Naught Spy tested some and put together a good report, if I remember correctly exits on just about every hog

[rickOshay]

You may want to check out this thread. There are several good options:

http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?13324-Lead-Free-Projectiles-for-the-6.5-Grendel

And several more including an 85, 95, and 110 from Maker Bullets.

[sneaky one]

Yes, ROS, enlighten the horde of our gained knowledge. Team effort has been on going for 5 years now on the mono's. Jasmith is in the mix also.. I have been a busy guy

[BR17722]

And several more including an 85, 95, and 110 from Maker Bullets.

Do you have a link to these bullets?

[rickOshay]

Here's a link to the 85s and 110s. The 95 is in design.

https://www.makerbullets.com/products.php?cat=3&scri=58

[A5BLASTER]

Boy I wish I could get that 85 loaded in a factory round to hunt with.

[s3silver]

Sell the gmx's and buy the 100gr ttsx to try. I got a box of gmx's in on trade. After some research sold them and went with the ttsx. Supposedly the gmx is more of a gilding metal and is harder than copper, plus I don't think they were designed to peel back like the ttsx.

I use the 100 ttsx in all my grendels for hunting. Using benchmark I'm pushing them just over 2800 fps in a 22" tube. In my 16" they're moving about 2700 with the same load. So far most deer have been DRT with the furthest going about 30 yards.

[johnhefley]

Guys, you've given me great feedback.

On size of deer, I never hunt where the big deer roam. if I shot a 150 lb. dressed out deer, I'd be one happy chappy!!!

Having said that, if a well placed vital shot isn't going to bang-flop the deer, I'd certainly appreciate it if the forest looked like it had been visited by the Manson Family.

I WILL say that when I was shooting deer with a .30-06, I never had any issues. The hits were so dramatic that the "running wounded deer" wasn't so much running away as they were running to the place (nearby) that they knew they were scheduled to collapse in a heap - all the while shooting out blood like it was coming from a fire hose.

A small entrance wound with no exit wound (and especially if, like the SST, the bullet fragments) is useless to me. Bang-flop works, or a shockingly bloody track works. But a running deer bleeding internally creates difficulty, uncertainty, and the risk of lost animals.

S3silver seems to have the kind of results that I'm after with the ttsx. I didn't plan on going down in bullet weight, but maybe I'll have to just to get the MV and necessary deformation to do the job.

jh