Post Alliant Power Pro Varmint Results

[beastep]

#7 looks promising even at the higher velocity. I may have to see if any of my local places has this powder.

[BluntForceTrauma]

DB, any signs of pressure? Any thoughts on whether your barrel can handle more powder in that load?

[Kswhitetails]

I have been watching this thread with interest, now upgraded to aggressive interest. Thanks for the data DB.

[Drillboss]

DB, any signs of pressure? Any thoughts on whether your barrel can handle more powder in that load?

Primers look fine and no noticeable ejector marks. These are the same loads as I detailed in post #26. My velocities match up very well with Sierra's data, after correcting for barrel length with the velocity estimator here http://shootersnotes.com/calculator/velocity-estimator/. My assumption is that 29.6 gr was at or near max in Sierra's pressure testing. Since that velocity is at or above factory Hornady, I don't care to take it any higher.

As others have said with the Grendel, if you see pressure signs on your brass, you are well above max pressure.

[CavityBackBullets]

Varmint not only spikes easily when it's hot it also slows way down when it's cold. In 20* temps and colder it can actually create a perceivable delay in ignition.
I was testing this powder fairly extensively. After my experiences with it I discontinued it's use.
If your shooting in temps between 45* to 80* only then you may find it can work for you. Outside of those temps I would avoid it.

[beastep]

Varmint not only spikes easily when it's hot it also slows way down when it's cold. In 20* temps and colder it can actually create a perceivable delay in ignition.
I was testing this powder fairly extensively. After my experiences with it I discontinued it's use.
If your shooting in temps between 45* to 80* only then you may find it can work for you. Outside of those temps I would avoid it.

What powder did you go to?

[muvef]

[IMG][/IMG]

I pulled my second shot on the left target.

18" JSE barrel.

48* out today and a little windy.

No signs of pressure.

[CavityBackBullets]

What powder did you go to?

I'm using 8208, AR Comp, CFE223 and LEVERevolution

[LRRPF52]

If I used what I commonly see referred to as "pressure signs" as my baseline, I would be loading one of my CFE223 loads under a 123gr cup and core bullet at 2612fps from a 16" Grendel.

Primers looked great, nice rounded edges, no ejector channel brass extrusion from the case head, and I didn't even have any velocity increases over 26fps/.3gr charge increase up to that point.

I didn't see any cratering until the next charge increase, which took me to 2640fps from a 16" Grendel with a 123gr A-MAX. (This is 200fps faster than most book data by the way.)

If I wasn't looking at chronograph data because I didn't have one, and just looked at the brass and primers, and felt that I had enough information to make conclusions about the safety of that load, I would have been inclined to report my results as such, but I didn't do that.

Since I have access to reloading data, pressure trace instrumentation results with the load, and numerous sources for reference, I know that I was well in excess of the SAAMI MAP for 6.5 Grendel.

Could I get away with those loads in a CMMG Anvil Grendel (short AR10 basically)?

All day for sure and even faster since it has a legit AR10/LR-308 dimension bolt in it, but brass life would drop in half at least.

At empty weight, it's more than my optics-equipped Lilja 318 Grendel though.

There is always very high pressure in a modern rifle action shooting bottle-necked rifle cartridges.

How much pressure and how much pressure increase you get per charge weight is what you really want to know well before you look at the brass and primers for indications of where you are at.

Some type of velocity-measuring instrument is necessary for this, short of pressure testing equipment and a pressure-test breach that has been calibrated by a competent engineering lab.

What I am seeing is that with the lighter 6.5 Grendels especially, you aren't doing yourself any favors by chasing the maximum performance since lighter guns are much more difficult to hold on-target, plus barrel-receiver harmonics on lightweight guns typically is quite sloppy.

Shooting my 95gr Controlled Chaos load from the lightweight 18" guns is very pleasant, and right out of the gate I shot 1.4" groups at 200yds with that load off the bipod. The gun behaves very well, doesn't curl up and bounce as much as a 123gr/CFE223 load.

There is something to be said for a lightweight gun that handles very well under recoil and the action cycling when looking at hit probability and confidence. Not to say that I don't have confidence with the heavier loads, but they are noticeably more jumpy on a LW gun.

[Mad Charlie]

I'm using 8208, AR Comp, CFE223 and LEVERevolution

With what bullets? I am assuming CBB's. (meant to put that in before, got sidetracked)

[Rugerfan.64]

Disclaimer: I have not used PPV, although, I have ran Sierra 120 Matchkings with AR Comp. I fired 50 rounds during my load work up , none of which exceeded 1". I finally settled on a load and went with it. Its been very consistent for a match type load. Always runs around 1/2" at 100 yards. I would like to keep up with this thread, PPV seems like a great powder for the Grrrrr, if it turns out to be temp insensitive. Y'all keep posting up this information. Following closely. But I hate to buy another lb of powder. I'm cheap.

[Drillboss]

I was going to hold this until I got some warmer temperatures, but decided to go ahead and show what I have.

My original shooting was at about 60 degrees. I selected my load of 28.7 gr of PPV as a datum, since it gave me the lowest ES and SD, and it also gives me some room if things try to spike at higher temperatures. Over the past couple weeks, I've checked some lower temperatures.

60 deg: Avg vel 2448, ES 9, SD 3.7, group size 1.14" (original data presented above)
52 deg Avg vel 2421, ES 20, SD 8.5, group size 0.6" (lost 3.5 fps/deg)
40 deg: Avg vel 2406, ES 27, SD 12.5, group size 1.33" (lost 2.1 fps/deg)
28 deg: Avg vel 2398, ES 32, SD 14.6, Too damn cold and windy to set up and shoot for groups. I just huddled in the shed, shooting at the berm. (lost 1.6 fps/deg)

Each case above is compared to my 60 degree datum. ES and SD increased as temperatures got lower. I'm looking forward to see what happens with higher temperatures. Here in Oklahoma, we could see that in a week or two or it could be in a few months.

Looking back, I wish I had checked velocities on factory loads as the temperature went down. I'll share that data if I manage to get it.

[beastep]

Great info on the different temps.

[Drillboss]

Here's some data for the sake of science. I went out and shot another 3 round group with factory Hornady Black to get an indication on temperature stability. Here's what I have:

60 deg: Avg vel 2441, ES 11, SD 5.2, I think the 3 round group was about 1.5"
44 deg: Avg vel 2424, ES 9, SD 3.9 (lost 1.06 fps/deg, obviously more stable than PPV)

Now it gets weird. After pulling the target for the 44 deg test, I though I had missed a 24" square frame with two shots, all I had on the target was one very ragged hole. Possibilities were single hole, or 2 complete misses. Neither made sense.

I went back and got the backer board, which was brand new. The hole is slightly triangular and measures 0.3". A fired case neck is a friction fit into the hole.

It's still hard for me to believe, and I have no witnesses, but this was a "no crap",center to center, 3 shot group of 0.036". I've never come anywhere close to that before with any load, and doubt that I ever will again, but at least I can tell people I did.

BTW, all of my data has been with a MagnetoSpeed strapped on the barrel.

[Crusty]

Being curious, I just shot a comparison picture of Alliant Power Pro 2000-MR beside the mystery powder loaded into Hornady Black Match ammo. The two look almost identical to me since they're both flattened spheres of the same color except that the mystery powder kernels look to be about half the size of the 2000-MR.

It's dubious to think you can tell much about a powder by looking at it, but still I wonder if their chemical compositions are similar? The smaller kernel size may explain how Hornady is able to load production ammo that's so consistent since it likely measures more consistently.

The mystery powder looks blacker in the photo because it's farther from the light source but in person they look the same to me. It's difficult to take a good picture of powder kernels with a phone camera.