IMR 4198 and hornady 95 v max?

[Doon]

Doom: I ran your numbers and Hodgdon numbers with almost the same numbers but also has pressure info. You should be at 2590fps. Even with less powder and a longer oal you getting almost the same speed with 3 1/2" less barrel. The only way you can do that is that you are running at a higher pressure. I ran the numbers and with the speed you are going. Your at about 55,600PSI. You might have heavier cases (less vol) than Hodgdon is useing or a tighter barrel???

Here is the data I used to work up this load

http://www.adi-powders.com.au/handloaders/rifle.asp?Calibre=6.5mm+Grendel

I started low and worked up, notice the max is 25.8 compressed grains,My loads are not compressed and I have a suppressor which adds a bit more mv .
I had my throat seated longer than normal to allow for long bullets.
Also my barrel was a howa 1/8 twist 6.5x55 modded to the savage short action.
I am not even close to the lands.
Saying that I had better results with benchmark 8208 as in another post.Had similar velocity reading to the published data also. http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showt...-vmax-and-8208
Thanks for your concern but I think I am in a safe pressure node.

[Fat Albert]

Drillboss: sold my Chrony for $25, my Magnetospeed sits on the shelf and my LabRada Doppler Chronograph is sitting on the gunbench. When I used my Magspeed my gun gave different sizes than when it was not used. I would need to fire a 2nd to get group size. Now I only need to shoot one group to get the speed (at up to 4 distances to 100yrds.) at the same time and the group. Knowing the speed at 25yrds and 90yrds on the same shoot I can compere it with what the bullet maker lists the bc of the bullet . Norma has a great interactive ballistic program on their site and I just enter the listed BC-bullet weight-muzzle speed and then just compare it to what I am getting. If I get numbers that are not the same as mine I just lower or raise the bc till they match.

https://www.norma.cc/en/Ammunition-Academy/Ballistics/ballistics-program/

[Drillboss]

Drillboss: sold my Chrony for $25, my Magnetospeed sits on the shelf and my LabRada Doppler Chronograph is sitting on the gunbench. When I used my Magspeed my gun gave different sizes than when it was not used. I would need to fire a 2nd to get group size. Now I only need to shoot one group to get the speed (at up to 4 distances to 100yrds.) at the same time and the group. Knowing the speed at 25yrds and 90yrds on the same shoot I can compere it with what the bullet maker lists the bc of the bullet . Norma has a great interactive ballistic program on their site and I just enter the listed BC-bullet weight-muzzle speed and then just compare it to what I am getting. If I get numbers that are not the same as mine I just lower or raise the bc till they match.
https://www.norma.cc/en/Ammunition-A...stics-program/

I get that. Technology is moving ahead at an ever increasing rate. It's just a question of how much money we want to expend to keep up with it.

[Fat Albert]

Grayfor: "others have reported here that the Grendel is pretty difficult to model successfully in QL" . That because they think that can just turn it on and enter their data and it spits the loads. It dose not work that way. There is a ton of variation in case weights between manufactures for this case that =difference in volume. The MOST important thing with the program is to tell it what the weight of water that will fit in the case to overflow. if you are loading for two different brands, lets say Star and Hor, you will need the average water of weight for both of them. If you don't enter these weight you are just "peeing into the wind". Second is the Burn Rate Factor number(Ba). There are two Ba numbers one for the speed and a one for the pressure. Both the starting load and max load have separate set of Ba numbers. If you were to add 1/2gr of powder to the starting load and had a cromo and pressure equipment you would find that the BA's have changed. The program already has built in Ba numbers that are a generic number that could be near the actual. number. The faster the powder the higher the pressure Ba number will be. It would take me all day to sit down with someone ( who is already reloading minded) in front of computer to show them how it works.

[Klem]

I use QL all the time and while not exact to the fps it is incredibly useful and insightful.

[BCHunter]

So I re-ran 5 shot groups with Cfe 31.3, 31.5, and 31.7 grains Hornady brass, cci 400 primer 2.244"coal 18" barrel
also with Imr 4198 at 24.3, 24.5, 24.7 with same case prep.

cfe 31.3 gave
2523
2532
2527
2519
2532
avg 2527 sd 5.7 best group at 0.88"

31.5 grains at
2483
2523
2521
2534
2539
Avg 2520 sd 22 group 1.09"

31.7 no chrono readings 1.05" group

4198 at 24.3 grains

2525
2500
2519
2529
2527
Avg 2524 SD 4 1.05" group

24.5 grains
no chrono readings
best group at 0.72"

24.7 grains
no chrono reading
0.84" group


So it seems IMR4198 will get you similiar velocity with less powder, working with the 2 powders, Cfe metered much better and was easier to get charges weighed. IMR 4198 seems to be a viable alternative with this bullet. Temperature sensativity will have to be revised since its been barely above freezing so far during testing.

[Doon]

So I re-ran 5 shot groups with Cfe 31.3, 31.5, and 31.7 grains Hornady brass, cci 400 primer 2.244"coal 18" barrel
also with Imr 4198 at 24.3, 24.5, 24.7 with same case prep.

cfe 31.3 gave
2523
2532
2527
2519
2532
avg 2527 sd 5.7 best group at 0.88"

31.5 grains at
2483
2523
2521
2534
2539
Avg 2520 sd 22 group 1.09"

31.7 no chrono readings 1.05" group

4198 at 24.3 grains

2525
2500
2519
2529
2527
Avg 2524 SD 4 1.05" group

24.5 grains
no chrono readings
best group at 0.72"

24.7 grains
no chrono reading
0.84" group


So it seems IMR4198 will get you similiar velocity with less powder, working with the 2 powders, Cfe metered much better and was easier to get charges weighed. IMR 4198 seems to be a viable alternative with this bullet. Temperature sensativity will have to be revised since its been barely above freezing so far during testing.

Your cfe charges are what I load for 123gn sst, I have run 34 gn of cfe in a bolt gun for the 95 gn vmax.


Series 10 Shots: 3 savage grendel
Min 2788 Max 2814 95 vmax
Avg 2799 S-D 13.4
ES 26

Series Shot Speed
10 1 2795 ft/s 34 gn cfe
10 2 2788 ft/s 34 gn cfe
10 3 2814 ft/s 34 gn cfe

Personalty I think your loads are slow for using CFE, Maybe room for improvement :-)

[RiverRider]

I use QL all the time and while not exact to the fps it is incredibly useful and insightful.

Klem, I've been using QL myself for about eight years, now, I think. It really IS an interesting tool. I've found it to be pretty accurate in predictions for some cartridges, and a little less so for some others. The 6.5 Grendel seems to be out there in its own neighborhood though. It seems ro me that it works about right when Start Pressure is adjusted way down to around 500 psi, but having never actually pressure tested I find myself a little more on the wary side when it comes to pressure estimates. What would you suggest to a Grendel newbie for using QL?

[BCHunter]

Your cfe charges are what I load for 123gn sst, I have run 34 gn of cfe in a bolt gun for the 95 gn vmax.


Series 10 Shots: 3 savage grendel
Min 2788 Max 2814 95 vmax
Avg 2799 S-D 13.4
ES 26

Series Shot Speed
10 1 2795 ft/s 34 gn cfe
10 2 2788 ft/s 34 gn cfe
10 3 2814 ft/s 34 gn cfe

Personalty I think your loads are slow for using CFE, Maybe room for improvement :-)

Yeah I thought the same, avg was slower at the 31.5 grains of cfe then 31.3? Don't know if it is my reloading technique or chronograph? 31.5 had best 3 shot accuracy on first ladder
So I went .2 grains above and below to fine tune it. Also gas gun vs your bolt generally will be slower?