COAL-Just load to magazine length?

[giannid]

I'll give them a check before I make the loads. I doubt a manufacturer like Lilja will have this problem though. I'd say that's a big liability to build a barrel to no Sami spec.

[1Shot]

I have had Zero problems with a number of 10 and 5 round ASC and AR-Stoner mags which I am pretty sure they are made by ASC in two different Grendel ARs.

[JASmith]

There have been a couple of barrel makers who have had QA trouble by releasing barrels with very short throats. Some have been dangerously short even with factory ammo.

It's best not to just guess at a number, you need to check it to be sure.

Edit: These are the COALs I got with 4 bullets in my first Grrr barrel.
2.187", 2.162", 2.143", 2.217"

You signature line is interesting. It almost seems to be intended to draw untoward comments that do not belong in ths forum:

"In any war, political or battlefield; truth is the first casualty."

Trump has never had a wife he didn't cheat on.

[Randy99CL]

You signature line is interesting. It almost seems to be intended to draw untoward comments that do not belong in ths forum:
I will, however, admit that both are likely accurate — I would submit that marital fidelity does not seem to be a trait shared by most of our presidents. Nonetheless, politcally loaded comments about current politicians are way too tempting for most of us to ignore.

Thankfully, the comments have been ignored until you mentioned them right now. And I don't intend to start discussion or argument. No one can be offended by those two statements because everyone knows they are true.

A few here have made pro-"deplorable" comments and one poster has stated that he supports southern state's rights. I actually PMed the administrator here and asked if those comments were off limits and he said no.

[Randy99CL]

I'll give them a check before I make the loads. I doubt a manufacturer like Lilja will have this problem though. I'd say that's a big liability to build a barrel to no Sami spec.

I bought the Hornady COAL gauge and the required extras and the total was about $50. Well worth it to know for sure.

I'm working to get into precision shooting and watch a lot of videos and read articles and books. Pretty much all of them use the Hornady gauge to accurately find the length-to-lands for every bullet they load. Then experimenting with that dimension is an important part of searching for the most accurate loads.

[Sticks]

I bought the Hornady COAL gauge and the required extras and the total was about $50. Well worth it to know for sure.

I'm working to get into precision shooting and watch a lot of videos and read articles and books. Pretty much all of them use the Hornady gauge to accurately find the length-to-lands for every bullet they load. Then experimenting with that dimension is an important part of searching for the most accurate loads.

Be careful with that Hornady set and the modified case. You will get false readings as your chamber is not cut 100% at 1.109 from the bolt face to the shoulder. Had that battle my own self. I use a sized (shoulder bumped .003) fired case and the neck just sized enough to grip the bullet but still move by hand. I will just start the bullet, slide the case in the chamber, then gently close the bolt into battery allowing the lands to push the bullet into the case. Just as gently eject the round using a cleaning rod to unset the bullet from the lands. Rinse and repeat until I get 3 identical measurements. Then you can cross that with the Hornady case if needed when using a different bullet.

OR - measure the case head to shoulder datum on your fired & sized case, and the Hornady Modified case, and add the difference to the tools measurement to the lands. I like to verify with my own case though.

I do this with each chamber.

[A5BLASTER]

Be careful with that Hornady set and the modified case. You will get false readings as your chamber is not cut 100% at 1.109 from the bolt face to the shoulder. Had that battle my own self. I use a sized (shoulder bumped .003) fired case and the neck just sized enough to grip the bullet but still move by hand. I will just start the bullet, slide the case in the chamber, then gently close the bolt into battery allowing the lands to push the bullet into the case. Just as gently eject the round using a cleaning rod to unset the bullet from the lands. Rinse and repeat until I get 3 identical measurements. Then you can cross that with the Hornady case if needed when using a different bullet.

OR - measure the case head to shoulder datum on your fired & sized case, and the Hornady Modified case, and add the difference to the tools measurement to the lands. I like to verify with my own case though.

I do this with each chamber.

Funny you should say that.

My hornady gauge has been dead on with the few bullets I have tryed so far, but good info to know should I ever run into a issue like this.

[Randy99CL]

Be careful with that Hornady set and the modified case. You will get false readings as your chamber is not cut 100% at 1.109 from the bolt face to the shoulder. Had that battle my own self. I use a sized (shoulder bumped .003) fired case and the neck just sized enough to grip the bullet but still move by hand. I will just start the bullet, slide the case in the chamber, then gently close the bolt into battery allowing the lands to push the bullet into the case. Just as gently eject the round using a cleaning rod to unset the bullet from the lands. Rinse and repeat until I get 3 identical measurements. Then you can cross that with the Hornady case if needed when using a different bullet.

OR - measure the case head to shoulder datum on your fired & sized case, and the Hornady Modified case, and add the difference to the tools measurement to the lands. I like to verify with my own case though.

I do this with each chamber.

Thanks for the info!
Yes I am aware of the potential problems with the Hornady setup and it is important to be aware of them.

I have purchased the Hornady drilled-and-tapped cases but will be replacing those with my own fire-formed as soon as I get the drill and tap.

I first tried this process (bullet-to-lands) with the fire formed cases BCA sent me with my upper (mine were PPU brass, BTW). Slotted the neck and tried many bullets and it worked OK but seemed inconsistent to me.

When I use the Hornady gauge I insert a 1/4" wood dowel down the bore and work the bullet between the H gauge and dowel. I believe I get a better feel that way and no bullets stuck in the lands.

I have never seated a bullet closer than .015" (at this point) because any inaccuracy should be less than that.

[grendelnubi]

I personally used the process that Sticks suggested. Measure the case head to shoulder datum on your fired & sized case, and the Hornady Modified case, and add the difference to the tools measurement to the lands.

If you resize the brass shouldn't you just use a resized case to measure?

Also I can try this to be sure but you should be able to resize the modified case to set the shoulder were you normally resize your brass too then take a projectile and seat and pull and repeat till it slides in easily.

[Wargrendeleagle]

I just bought the Hornady coal myself and modified cases. What else am I missing that I need to make it most useful? I'm learning a lot but I kind of bought it before I'm ready and understand it all cause it was on clearance at academy haha. This thread has been helpful albeit a touch over my head till I use it all

[Sticks]

Youtube is your friend.

[Mad Charlie]

I personally used the process that Sticks suggested. Measure the case head to shoulder datum on your fired & sized case, and the Hornady Modified case, and add the difference to the tools measurement to the lands.

If you resize the brass shouldn't you just use a resized case to measure?

Also I can try this to be sure but you should be able to resize the modified case to set the shoulder were you normally resize your brass too then take a projectile and seat and pull and repeat till it slides in easily.

Hard to get a primer in that threaded hole in order to fire the case in your rifle. The modified case is quite a bit shorter than both of my chambers. You have to fire a case first, then re-size it.

[louielouie]

I have a fired case with a split neck (part of a batch I harvested from the local range) so it was just about right for testing seating depths.
As noted in other threads about chambers with REALLY short throats, that would explain why I was getting ejector swiping with a 'normal' SAAMI load - I would seat the bullet long and press it hard into the chamber. Then use a 1/4" oak dowel from the muzzle to carefully push the bullet/case back out for a measurement. After a few consistent results I'd been jamming the bullets about 15 ~ 20 thou.
According to QuickLoad, you need to ADD 7,200 psi for "jammed" bullets to the default 3,625 psi engraving pressure so the load that may have been 46k went to 57k psi and the brass started flowing.
NOW my 123gr Nosler CC are COAL safely to 2.240" instead of 2.26 with a little jump.

The plan after hunting season is to rent a precision throater from 4D-Reamers and cut the throat a little deeper in my Grendel and 6.5x284

[Cornbread]

Distance to the lands is good to know but unless you have a barrel custom chambered to shoot a specific load or are going to single load you are going to be constrained by mag length. That being said you can find accurate loads at less than mag length even with a big jump. For example the factory Hornady 123 gr loads are at about 2.245 and my 123 Amax and SST loads shoot sub moa at this coal.

[mharpster]

Thanks for the info!
Yes I am aware of the potential problems with the Hornady setup and it is important to be aware of them.

I have purchased the Hornady drilled-and-tapped cases but will be replacing those with my own fire-formed as soon as I get the drill and tap.

I first tried this process (bullet-to-lands) with the fire formed cases BCA sent me with my upper (mine were PPU brass, BTW). Slotted the neck and tried many bullets and it worked OK but seemed inconsistent to me.

When I use the Hornady gauge I insert a 1/4" wood dowel down the bore and work the bullet between the H gauge and dowel. I believe I get a better feel that way and no bullets stuck in the lands.

I have never seated a bullet closer than .015" (at this point) because any inaccuracy should be less than that.

I designed and am manufacturing a new LTL (length to lands) Gauge that addresses the problems that are inherent with the other tools and methods used currently. There is also a Case Jig that you can use to modify your own sized cases at home. Visit the Dead Center Sports website for more information.
Thanks,
Mike