Winchester Staball Match

[Zeneffect]

Powdervalley just did free shipping so I picked up 8# to continue this endeavor. 130gr otm up next. Pretty sure I want to start at 29.5 and maybe end at 30.5 or 30.7

I tried the 123s out of the 28" and only picked up 120fps. Accuracy wasn't there at all... made me sad.

[tdbru]

thank you Zen for the data so far.

some open conjecture here, so take with a grain of salt: I think, based upon my experiences in reloading for the last 50 years, that ball powders need to be near the upper pressures for low SD of MV. Stick powders are a bit more tolerant. Flake powders the most tolerant. So far, in pursuit of low SD in MV, it is my experience to date in quite a few cartridges that go up to ~60K psi or so that the MV SD reduces as I have crept up on max loads. Typically, though not always due to other effects, low SD also gives better groups as well. and for the long range F-class shooters, low SDs correlate to less vertical stringing and more X's

Since the max pressure spec of the 6.5 Grendel is down from the more mainstream cartridges, my hypothesis is that the ball powders are not getting enough pressure for consistent burn rates, though your SD numbers with the 123s look great. But notice that as the powder charge is increasing, the SDs are decreasing.

if I recall, the Hodgdon burn rate manual shows staBALL match at a faster burn rate than CFE223. So, like you, I'd expect better performance in the Grendel with staBALL match than CFE223.

I've had really good performance, to my mind, with H4895, and that may be due to it is a bit easier to ignite, based upon what I've read, than ball powders are. My assumption is that it burns more consistently due to easier ignition at lower pressures than ball powders would at the same pressure due to the tougher to ignite characteristics of ball powders, in general.

as an aside, I think for awhile, we're at the mercy of the powder manufacturers and will just have to utilize what we can get rather than what we really want. And for now, it appears that Winchester is able to supply ball powders where as IMR and ADI (Hodgdon's extreme series) are not, or don't seem to be, interested in meeting the increased demand. In fact it seems that IMR quit making the Enduron series of powders altogether. No one in my part of the country has seen Retumbo,Varget,H4895 for about 2 years now. So you are wise to experiment with staBALL match since it is available and is somewhat close to a useful burn rate for the Grendel.

thank you.
-tdbru

[Zeneffect]

Staball match isn't much faster than cfe223 on the 2023 burn rate chart. Cfe lands at 115 and staball match at 112. Only blc2 and n540 are listed between them. I figure this will be optimal with the 120gr SMK based on testing with the 123s and 105s. Really though, I want to try it with some 77s and 80s in .223 to replace the norma 202 I'm running out of.

[Zeneffect]

Revisiting the 105gr blitzking and 32.5gr today. If they repeat same performance as last time, will be running them for a match tomorrow. Im willing to give up some speed for higher accuracy as the energy on target is more than sufficient.

Btw 25gr in .223 with 80gr eldm was pretty damn good. Just way past mag length so single feed only. 2900fps out of a 24" barrel. I know not grendel but we all pretty much own a .223 wylde so I thought I'd share what I got out of it.

[B 13]

Posting here instead of Ramslamer's "Staball Match" thread to keep the data together, and to not open another thread.

My results with Winchester Staball Match, new Starline 6.5G brass, CCI 450 primer, Hornady 123gr SST loaded to 2.255. 3 round averages. This is informational only and not recommended load data. And no cool pics like Zeneffect...

Charge------------Howa Mini 20" vel-------Faxon barreled AR 20" vel

28.0 gr-----------------2237---------------------------2247
28.5 gr-----------------2284---------------------------2295
29.0 gr-----------------2311---------------------------2323
29.5 gr-----------------2350---------------------------2380
30.0 gr-----------------2379---------------------------2387
30.5 gr 2.263OAL-----2425---------------------------2428

Brass and primers look very good to this point. It appears my velocities are in line with what Zeneffect saw from his 22" tube. I would agree with Zeneffect that there is room for more pressure, but I am pretty much out of room for powder at this point. As noted in the 30.5gr column I bumped my coal a bit as powder level was very near the bottom of the neck and I am sure there is some powder compression happening. I could go a fair bit longer on OAL as throats on both guns will allow but not sure it will get me a whole lot more. Zeneffect, were your 30.6 and 30.9 loads compressed? Accuracy was decent and the 30.5 load turned in a 1 moa group for the mini and 3/4 moa for the AR in a decent cross breeze. Also, every round in the AR gave full lock of the bolt and 4-5 o'clock ejection with the Superlative Arms agb at full open no bleed off, carbine buffer and Geissle 42 spring. I was not always getting that with CFE223, even up into the 31.0-31.6 grain range.

[Zeneffect]

Not compressed that I can tell, but also no additional room either.

I did not revisit 32.5gr with the 105s for 1 reason.

Was prepping for a match, and tried to load just 32gr into new lapua brass. Didn't look right at all so I dumped it. To run this much, absolutely needs to be fired case or maybe I got a small sized batch. About .012 shoulder difference between new and fired on the last box I opened up.

[FirefighterMedic03]

[FirefighterMedic03]

[Okie_Poke]

Good info here. Thank you. Chiming in to find and reference this later.