More Chrony reports!! ((WARNING!)) lots of pics.

[IndyGrendel63]

The barrel on my rifle was machined by E.R. Shaw, is 24" with a 1:9 twist and is a SAAMI "6.5 Grendel" chamber. 1.125" under the handguard, .936" Gas block journal, .920" from gas block to the muzzle with a target crown.

Wow, that's impressive. Was that a custom ordered barrel?

On the powders. I thought that CFE223 was the end all, do all powder and then I see RL-15 thrown back in the mix... what gives? Personally I have been a RL-15 fan for many years, just wondering before I go out and buy a keg of powder.

Indy

[seatleroadwr]

Bill, you might want to to try AR Comp. It is similar to RL 15 but takes up a little less space. Standard deviation numbers are excellent with that powder. Start at 27.5 grains under a 123 grain Nosler and work up. 28.3 grains with a 123 grain Nosler gives 2532 from my 22" barrel.

[Bwild97]

Wow, that's impressive. Was that a custom ordered barrel?

On the powders. I thought that CFE223 was the end all, do all powder and then I see RL-15 thrown back in the mix... what gives? Personally I have been a RL-15 fan for many years, just wondering before I go out and buy a keg of powder.

Indy

No, I did not custom order the barrel, it arrived from J&T that way.

CFE223 and the Nosler 123g Custom Comp. are not playing nicely with each other from my barrel. I have about 3 1/2 lbs left from a 5 lbs keg and was using a baseline load while I experimented with different primers in PPU and Hornady brass, just trying to burn it up while I find a good load for these Noslers.

Bill, you might want to to try AR Comp. It is similar to RL 15 but takes up a little less space. Standard deviation numbers are excellent with that powder. Start at 27.5 grains under a 123 grain Nosler and work up. 28.3 grains with a 123 grain Nosler gives 2532 from my 22" barrel.

AR Comp has certainly been on my mind for load development, but none of the local shops stock it, maybe I'll fold and just pay the haz-mat fee for a 5lb keg.

I'm also looking at IMR 4064 and IMR 4320 to experiment with in the near future. They are very good and long forgotten powders the deserve some attention.

[seatleroadwr]

4064 is pretty fluffy. You might have trouble getting enough of it into a Grendel case to provide decent velocity.

[Allen]

Very interested in IMR powders, since thats mostly what I use.

[sneaky one]

The cfe-223 powder, and the next cfe groups- will be the best thing,- since Superformance came along. Hold on to your hats, wait for it....- wait some more... It will be a while, yet well worth the wait----- whenever it actually arrives on shelf. -((( I personally think -the mix is Superformance, and an ammonia based ingreed. beyond belief))))) I asked Bwild to push the current cfe - 223, to make sure it had it's place set---as far as speeds go.. per diff. bullet wts., the results were great, and a few were slower than expected, yet it was at least 60-90 fps faster-given the bbl. length indiff.; as compared to 8208.,, for a many bullets. We had fun. Maybe more to come.

[Bennybone]

Thanks a million all for this data, I picked up a pound of CFE over the weekend and currently I have Hornady and Wolf brass on hand. A few questions for Bwild:

1) Can you provide the component product numbers for your reloading setup, do you crimp the neck on the bullet, if so what amount of pressure are you applying.

2) With CFE powder are you noticing any consistent deviation in your first shot from a cold barrel vs the next shot. I am thinking in terms of hunting application on this question.

3) At this time, with commercially available projectiles is the 129gr SST / CCI 450 / CFE load still your top pet load from an accuracy standpoint?

4) From a Terminal Effect standpoint, which do you think is more effective between 100 - 400 yards, the 100 gr Amax starting at near 3000 fps or the 129gr SST starting ~2600 fps? Their accuracy seems about the same hence the question.

5) Any data on 100gr TTSX vs the Amax using CFE and small primers/Grendel cases?

THANKS AGAIN!

BB

[JASmith]

...
4) From a Terminal Effect standpoint, which do you think is more effective between 100 - 400 yards, the 100 gr Amax starting at near 3000 fps or the 129gr Amax starting ~2600 fps? Their accuracy seems about the same hence the question...

It appears that 3000 ft/sec for a 100 gr bullet is stretching things a tad unless you are using a bolt gun where higher pressures don't tax the mechanism. You might want to look at velocities about 200 ft/sec slower.

Did you mean 120 gr AMAX? The 2600 ft/sec is about right for the 120 gr weight class.

In any event, the 100 gr bullets are probably best for coyote and smaller deer, while the 120-130 grain bullets have better potential for the larger classes of medium game.

[Bennybone]

Did you mean 120 gr AMAX? The 2600 ft/sec is about right for the 120 gr weight class.

In any event, the 100 gr bullets are probably best for coyote and smaller deer, while the 120-130 grain bullets have better potential for the larger classes of medium game.

No I meant what I posted, see post #211 page 22 shot group #12.

What I am wondering is this:

Does a 100gr bullet with a 300 - 350 fps velocity advantage bridge the gap "i.e. Play up" to the heavier weight bullets from a terminal effect standpoint at close to medium range.

The benefit of course would be COAL is able to be tweaked more based on the smaller projectile.

[JASmith]

No I meant what I posted, see post #211 page 22 shot group #12

What I am wondering is this:

Does a 100gr bullet with a 300 - 350 fps velocity advantage bridge the gap "i.e. Play up" to the heavier weight bullets from a terminal effect standpoint at close to medium range.

The benefit of course would be COAL is able to be tweaked more based on the smaller projectile.

Apologies -- I saw "SST" and it registered as AMAX.

Back to your question about trades of bullet weights and designs.

The lighter bullets will buy a few tens of yards in "point blank range" meaning that you can use a single aimpoint out to 250 - 275 yards. After that, one is obliged to change point of aim or sight setting. Hence there isn't much advantage in ability to get the elevation right at 400 yards given today's range-finding hardware.

The heavier, higher BC, bullets will give you a few inches of advantage in wind drift.

The 100 grain bullets are better than the 60-64 gr bullets some use for medium game in the .223 Remington but are more in the same class as far as medium game potential is concerned.

The 129 grain bullets are good for medium game out to where the velocity drops below 1700-1800 ft/sec. For the Grendel this is as much as 400-500 yards depending on barrel length and load.

We can go through the calculations and generate numbers if you want...

[Drifter]

From a Terminal Effect standpoint, which do you think is more effective between 100 - 400 yards, the 100 gr Amax starting at near 3000 fps or the 129gr SST starting ~2600 fps? Their accuracy seems about the same hence the question.

The 100gr Amax at ~3k fps will likely disintegrate upon impact and fail to penetrate adequately on medium game at normal hunting distances. Perhaps it would be ideal for small varmints.

For medium game, I think the 129gr SST or InterBond would be far better. The 120gr BT is also a good hunting bullet for Grendel velocities.

[oneshotkyle]

loaded up some 123scenars over cfe last night. headin to range for my report on things.

[LRRPF52]

If impact velocities are even near 2600fps with a bullet designed to open up, you're probably not going to get the results you want...i.e. the bullet will fragment early on the hide and superficial tissue, with little penetration.

For the uber magnum rifles that spit projectiles out at 2900-3400fps, they are best utilized at much longer ranges than the hunter typically engages, so that by the time the bullets impact, they have fallen well below the fragmentation threshold of the bullet construction.

Even with my .260 Rem, I'm not sure I would want to shoot medium game within 150yds if I were to push the 129gr SST at 2870fps mv, because it would still be smoking. From 200-600yds would be more ideal. A .264 Winchester would make a 700yd capable combo with the 129gr SST, if not further, based on the wind-reading and marksmanship skills of the shooter.

For out to 400yds, te Grendel is just right, like Goldie Locks and pooridge...

[Bigfoot]

Impressive work Bwild97. The 100 Berger would load out further and give a bit more powder space and might make a good deer dropper too.

Don't remember where I got this gel test, probably the old forum.

100 gr Berger Target at 2550 impact.

Edit: I can't see posted pics on this forum with IE, Chrome or Firefox. Any ideas?

[oneshotkyle]

in my CSS chambered 18"spr

my loads consisted of new lapua brass primed with cci450's oal lengths of 2.255 all with scenars and various charges of CFE223 powder from 31.0g to 32.2 all loads were compressed. lol. velocities were 2399 avg to 2470 at the highest charges? wtf?

my buddy who was load developing for his 264lbc had new horandy brass with cci 450's and 123g v-maxes with CFE223 and the same oal. i stole 3 of his rounds that were charged at 32.2g and shot 2570fps?

load bearing surface on bullet or case capacity? what do you think? im goin back to the drawing board. i am looking for mid 2500fps. factory AA123scenars shot 2570avg