Real time Velocities and choices

[Huntchic]

This is a multi question post about 12" barrel
Ive got an 18" barrel Grendel and using 123 grain SST and 125 grain Partitions with handloads I'm happy with.

1) I've labored extensively over which bullet would be best for multi use but would also be good on deer size game under 200 yards.
Ive ran numbers and velocities i would expect with 123 SST based off my current loadings. The 123 SST seems to come out best even in the short 12" barrel. I considered the 123 ELDM thinking it might expand bit better at the lower velocities than SST. Considered the 90 gr TNT because so many reports of its accuracy and results on pigs. However the energy numbers fall pretty short compared to 123 grain bullets. I looked at a few other bullets but again they didnt look as good as the 123. I dont want a mono bullet nor the 129 grain ABLR if i dont need to.
SO is the 123 grain the best choice?
2) what do yall get difference in velocity between an 18" and 12" with 123 grain bullets ? 350- 400 fps ?
3) would established loads i have for 18" barrel shoot as accurate in the 12" ? I realize each barrel is different but im planning to do work ups for the 12" loadings and wondering if my current loads would just need slight tweaking or just start from scratch?

[imaguy3]

I chose the 123SST and 123 ELDM for hunting specifically for lower velocities. My use is up to deer sized game (small coues deer) out to 500 and mule deer sized inside of 400 with it. I have a 16" barrel with my current eldm load MV around 2300 which puts me at the far low limit for expansion. My old load was SST leaving at 2375fps. I am no where near max load, I loaded for small groups and SD numbers.

I previously had contacted hornady and they stated expansion on the SST down to 1600fps. I tested this myself with water jugs at distance and was pleased. You can search my previous posts for all of that info and pics.

You can try shooting your load in the 12" gun but more than likely you'll need to do a workup on it for best results. Won't know until you try.

[imaguy3]

Found them for you.

https://www.65grendel.com/forum/forum/-6-5-grendel-discussion-forums/-6-5-grendel-hunting-varminting/20161-sst-vs-gunner-expansion-test-not-scientific

https://www.65grendel.com/forum/forum/-6-5-grendel-discussion-forums/-6-5-grendel-ammunition-reloading/25759-123gr-eldm-water-expansion-at-410-yards

[Huntchic]

Thanks imaguy3. that's very helpful. im looking for something for under 200 yds about 1000 fp energy and 1900 fps. the 123's seem to fit that. I was planing to shoot some of my current loads in the 12" and see what i get, then go from there. From your experience on deer size game do the ELDM or SST perform better terminally? shots through ribs, shoulder or something else?

[imaguy3]

My experience is limited... but dead deer is dead deer. Everything I've shot wither either has died.

Don't sweat the energy that much, imho it's a bullshit meaningless metric. I care about expansion velocity, Sectional density, and bullet design which I think are better (more meaningful) metrics. What matters is disrupting the vitals, if you don't do that then energy is worthless.
.
Here are pics from a coues I shot around 75 yards with the SST.

entry

[imaguy3]

exit

[imaguy3]

Shot this javelina with the eldm, if I remember right it was somewhere bt 100-150yrds... was a little back and gut shot (my windage turret got turned in the brush) but half it's guts were hanging out the exit hole... didn't take any pics of that one.

[imaguy3]

Hit this yote at 125ish with eldm

[Huntchic]

I agree that energy isn’t everything but I use it and velocity to help choose bullets to work with or not.
those were impressive terminal damage. Nice job.
I picked up 4 boxes of 123 SST one box of ELDM and though I said I wouldn’t I got two boxes of 129 ABLR. Accidentally saw them on sale almost 1/2 price as I’ve seen other places so I grabbed them.
were all those taken with a 12” Grendel ?

[kmon]

Those can and have worked for shorter barrel at least from what I have read on here.

I do not place much thought to to that 1000ftlbs but I know many do. if you think about it lots of deer have been killed with much less than that. I have cleanly killed deer with 43 different cartridges from as small as 22 Hornet to 300 Weatherby, 350 Remington Mag and 45-70 bullet in any of the right spots and dead deer. that 1000ft/lbs is something thought up long time ago. I have read gun scribes in the past that said you had to have that for deer, 1500 for elk and 2000 for moose. yet some of those same would hunt moose bear and elk with a 44 magnum handgun and tout it's effectiveness, seemed a bit hypocritical to me. I hunt mostly these days with the Grendel or a 357Mag carbine both effective deer guns IMO. 357I do limit to 125 yards or less but I carry it as a woods gun when hunting where I cannot see past that range.

Your 129gr ABLR will expand well below the threshold of the other bullets yet hold together, Nosler say 1300fos but I would say more like 1500fps where it has more energy than my 357Mag loads have at 100 yards. Just a little food for thought from a guy that has been hunting deer for over 50 years in multiple states, some with liberal bag limits and helped with cull operations on some ranches. With that bullet though you might need a different seater stem for the dies as the tip can deform if not the right stem. There are several threads on here about that VLD type stem and may be needed or not flitz on a bullet can get it to where there are basically no marks of deformation. For got to say that about those bullets sorry but IMO they are worth it.

not that the 123gr A-Max or SST haven't worked fine for me just seems like the LRAB leaves a better blood trail on double lung shots to me which always so far getting an exit and good blood trail is something I like if I choose to not take a high shoulder shot to anchor on the spot which does waste some meat but no tracking with that one. . .

[Huntchic]

Thanks for that. Hopefully I don’t run into that issue loading.

[imaguy3]

https://www.amazon.com/Hornady-397106-Match-Seating-6-5mm/dp/B00NHOQ7OO

I use this seating stem, it works perfectly for the 123sst and eldm bullets.


I looked at using the 129 ablr myself, b/c the lower threshold was enticing. However my starting velocity was that much lower so effective range was pretty much the same as the 123 offerings. Plus the bullet cost substantially higher than the sst/eldm, I didn't really see the benefit to it.

[Huntchic]

I agree. After looking at my load data I may be wrong but I’m expecting to see 200 fps lower velocity in my 12” than I’m getting in my 18”. Like you plugged in that and the 123’s do better. However I’m now thinking I might run the 129 ablr’s in my 18”
rifle. Might give the 125 partitions a try in the pistol. My 18” would be primary hunting rifle so the 129 partitions and 129ablr will work well for those. Then just stick with 123’s for pistol.

[LRRPF52]

The 120gr Federal OTM Match ammo in my 12” was pretty fast when I chrono’d it.

Unsuppressed
2360
2375
2374
2387
2384

Suppressed
2411
2398
2397
2349
2406
2384

I still haven’t chrono’d 123gr ELD-M from it, but I shoot it the most. Have shot a lot of 90gr TNT and 110gr PPU as well.
Where I used to go to the range and spend all this time chronographing loads, I now prefer to just go shoot steel at UKD ranges in field/canyon/mountain/plains terrain with the kids or in courses and not worry about it too much.

The 12” is really boring at 400yds, and hits really hard there. You can hear it hit solidly at distance too, not like a 7mm Rem Mag, but loud enough.

[Huntchic]

I was expecting to be somewhere between 2200 to 2300fps
with 123’s. I would be really happy to be at or over 2300.
those 90gr tnt have my interest. Seen so many folks loving them. Was thinking about trying them out for maybe a cheaper under deer size game/ plinking general purpose bullet in pistol. Just not sure I would launch one at a deer unless it’s neck shot or really close in.