THIS Is the Dedicated 65G Bullet I Want

[Bigfoot]

Well, there is no one idealized mono bullet. Sneaky has his idea of what would be desirable for a new hunting bullet, while Variable wants a tactical projectile.

I thought I was clear that HANKAs proposal is IMHO the ideal 6.5 g bullet. Skeaky, HANKA, LRRPF52, Drifter, Variable, RicOshey, JASmith, PA-Allen, myself and others have been kicking around the possibilities of a lighter bullet for better velocity without the trajectory of a brick that opens at lower velocities for years now, somewhat peeved that the 6.8 crowd gets optimized bullets and the 6.5 crowd is a ginger stepchild. Several of us had settled on the idea of a 85-100 g mono with a long nose to get the BC back up. This isn't the first time that a 6.5 version of the 110 Blackout or the 6.8 95g TTSX bullet has been discussed.

Some may view this primarily as a tactical bullet. Doesn't matter. As I once discussed in my 'long nose, larger diameter nose/meplat junction proposal' this makes the bullet very easy to tune for other purposes. You have more surface to work with. Want a varmint bullet, give it a larger cavity and poly nose shaft. Deer bullet, make the cavity and corresponding poly nose shaft smaller so there is more copper at the meplat. And so on. It's really an inexpensive way for a manufacturer to optimize the shape and then later optimize the same bullet from the same production line for different terminal performances. That and volume is what should keep the price down and guaranty a successful bullet line.

Edit: Had another Fireball whisky shot and decided to expand in case somebody didn't catch my original post on this subject. The bullet is inexpensively tunable. Say Barnes for instance gives us a bullet run for beta testing and we find out that it over or under expands. All the manufacturer has to do is order different poly noses that cost them pennies and use a larger/smaller drill bit for the cavities. Done. No expensive alloy changes etc. And that's why it would also sell as a mid sized 6.5 bullet, CM ,260, 47 Lapua, Sweed possibly with a smaller nose cavity change. With the long nose length it should shoot accurately even from the long throated Sweeds. With the great trajectory, penetration and lack of meat damage this bullet should be proposed as an all round 6.5 bullet and not limited to the 6.5G consumer. The truth is most game is taken at under 300 yards, this bullet will greatly extend that but the point is in my 260 it will recoil like the traditional mid range cartridges like the 243, 250 Savage and 257 Roberts and still outrange them all. I can't think of a better low recoil, long range, good penetrating, low meat loss bullet combo.

Barnes has stated that the initial LRX line will be expanded, let this be the lower SD 6.5mm version.

Build it.

[BluntForceTrauma]

I watched a Barnes bullet making video on either AccurateShooter.com or YouTube or at the Barnes Website, can't remember now. Anyway, I don't believe they drill their cavities but — oh, yeah, it was an article on the Barnes Website — they are punched in during the swaging process.

Next, I am diggin' those Corbin Ultra Low Drag tips!

So this is how we move forward, practically speaking:
1. Get Hornady 6.5 120 GMX bullets. [I'll get these.]
2. Get Corbin ULD "Tip-30" tips. I suppose we first call and ask the length, I wouldn't want them more than, oh, about 7mm long (not including stem). [I'll get these.]
3. Realizing the 6.5 Grendel loaded to a 2.260" mag length allows a bullet nose exposure of 0.740" (18.8mm) we measure the Tip-30 length and cut that amount, or so, from a 6.5 GMX in order to add the tip within the allowable 0.740 nose length.
4. Then we trim off the GMX tail until the bullet reaches the desired weight; in my case, 100gr, others can also add their "wish list" weights. I'd also like to see versions with a longer 0.200" boat tail and the truncated 0.100" boat tail.

Such a bullet worked up should give us some interesting proof-of-concept data.

[Variable]

I thought I was clear that HANKAs proposal is IMHO the ideal 6.5 g bullet. Skeaky, HANKA, LRRPF52, Drifter, Variable, RicOshey, JASmith, PA-Allen, myself and others have been kicking around the possibilities of a lighter bullet for better velocity without the trajectory of a brick that opens at lower velocities for years now, somewhat peeved that the 6.8 crowd gets optimized bullets and the 6.5 crowd is a ginger stepchild. Several of us had settled on the idea of a 85-100 g mono with a long nose to get the BC back up. This isn't the first time that a 6.5 version of the 110 Blackout or the 6.8 95g TTSX bullet has been discussed.

Some may view this primarily as a tactical bullet. Doesn't matter. As I once discussed in my 'long nose, larger diameter nose/meplat junction proposal' this makes the bullet very easy to tune for other purposes. You have more surface to work with. Want a varmint bullet, give it a larger cavity and poly nose shaft. Deer bullet, make the cavity and corresponding poly nose shaft smaller so there is more copper at the meplat. And so on. It's really an inexpensive way for a manufacturer to optimize the shape and then later optimize the same bullet from the same production line for different terminal performances. That and volume is what should keep the price down and guaranty a successful bullet line.

Edit: Had another Fireball whisky shot and decided to expand in case somebody didn't catch my original post on this subject. The bullet is inexpensively tunable. Say Barnes for instance gives us a bullet run for beta testing and we find out that it over or under expands. All the manufacturer has to do is order different poly noses that cost them pennies and use a larger/smaller drill bit for the cavities. Done. No expensive alloy changes etc. And that's why it would also sell as a mid sized 6.5 bullet, CM ,260, 47 Lapua, Sweed possibly with a smaller nose cavity change. With the long nose length it should shoot accurately even from the long throated Sweeds. With the great trajectory, penetration and lack of meat damage this bullet should be proposed as an all round 6.5 bullet and not limited to the 6.5G consumer. The truth is most game is taken at under 300 yards, this bullet will greatly extend that but the point is in my 260 it will recoil like the traditional mid range cartridges like the 243, 250 Savage and 257 Roberts and still outrange them all. I can't think of a better low recoil, long range, good penetrating, low meat loss bullet combo.

Barnes has stated that the initial LRX line will be expanded, let this be the lower SD 6.5mm version.

Build it.

True. The bullet I'm seeing in my head could be called anything someone wanted. Regardless, it'd be very good for most things either four or two legged. With a tip swap it'd also do medium-well against hard shelled critters too.

[stanc]

Next, I am diggin' those Corbin Ultra Low Drag tips!

So this is how we move forward, practically speaking:
1. Get Hornady 6.5 120 GMX bullets. [I'll get these.]
2. Get Corbin ULD "Tip-30" tips. I suppose we first call and ask the length, I wouldn't want them more than, oh, about 7mm long (not including stem). [I'll get these.]
3. Realizing the 6.5 Grendel loaded to a 2.260" mag length allows a bullet nose exposure of 0.740" (18.8mm) we measure the Tip-30 length and cut that amount, or so, from a 6.5 GMX in order to add the tip within the allowable 0.740 nose length.
4. Then we trim off the GMX tail until the bullet reaches the desired weight; in my case, 100gr, others can also add their "wish list" weights. I'd also like to see versions with a longer 0.200" boat tail and the truncated 0.100" boat tail.

Such a bullet worked up should give us some interesting proof-of-concept data.

The ULD Tip-30 tips are designed for .284-.323" bullets. Probable interface problem with the .264" GMX?

Even if interface is okay, will the aluminum tips permit the GMX bullet to expand?

[stanc]

So this is how we move forward, practically speaking:
1. Get Hornady 6.5 120 GMX bullets. [I'll get these.]
2. Get Corbin ULD "Tip-30" tips. I suppose we first call and ask the length, I wouldn't want them more than, oh, about 7mm long (not including stem). [I'll get these.]
3. Realizing the 6.5 Grendel loaded to a 2.260" mag length allows a bullet nose exposure of 0.740" (18.8mm) we measure the Tip-30 length and cut that amount, or so, from a 6.5 GMX in order to add the tip within the allowable 0.740 nose length.
4. Then we trim off the GMX tail until the bullet reaches the desired weight; in my case, 100gr, others can also add their "wish list" weights. I'd also like to see versions with a longer 0.200" boat tail and the truncated 0.100" boat tail.

ULD Tip-30 in .308" bullets. If you put this (or the above) pic in photoshop and narrow the body of the bullet to 85% of its original width, it'll let you see how well the tip fits on a 6.5mm bullet.

[BluntForceTrauma]

Wow, that needle tip is a little TOO pointy for getting banged around in a magazine under recoil, but it'll have to do for backyard testing. And it's hard to predict how it would affect expansion. It could just drill through or it could be pushed back into the copper body upon impact, acting as a wedge, and help initiate expansion.

I've tended to assume most of the engineering of this new bullet can be predicted based upon similar bullets and the common body of knowledge (wow, similar to machine gun links for the 65G! ). But I've seen no gel data on the Corbins — ever — so just don't know what to predict.

I'll also PhotoChop the tip onto a 6.5. Just eyeballing it, there could be problems fitting and blending it into a narrower 6.5 ogive. At that point we'd have to go to Plan B (having tips made).

[sneaky one]

When you get the tips, measure the base of tip diam., & the tiny shaft diam. I can get collets down to 3/64 ".

I can spin the tips- base area- to meet the bullets profile, where ever it ends up.

Those tips are aluminum, they can take a few bangs in the mag., the poly's hold up just fine. Looks like a nice solid to tinker with.

My best guess, would be they may open-somewhat-, but look like Federal's Guard DOG PISTOL BULLETS when retrieved. they bulge out part way down the bullet, instead of expanding from the front. My 9mm is loaded w/ them.

[ricsmall]

If the tip doesn't fit the profile perfectly, it can be profiled to match the pill after install. Just need a very sharp HSS tool. Tween sneaky and myself we could figure that out easily. Still waiting on my big collet chuck, but I could get around that if sneaky needs help

[cory]

Are y'all talking about using that tip for testing or for the proposed bullet?

I'll say I've got no interest in putting a bullet with an aluminum or steel tip in my semi auto chamber. Barrels are to expensive. And on that note, I can only imagine how expensive that'd make these bullets. Consider me out on a bullet like that.

However, a bullet with a polymer tip with the option of removing it. And if someone would offer something like the corbin that could replace that polymer tip, but steel and with a relatively thick polymer coating. That'd be the ticket.

[ricsmall]

I think the tip is just for testing. The only plastic tips I've ever seen available were from some company with a hex shaped nose cavity. I haven't looked lately tho

[stanc]

I've seen no gel data on the Corbins — ever — so just don't know what to predict.

Below is link to pic of two .30 cal Corbins recovered from gel. Yawed, but zero expansion. *

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1545822__ARCHIVED_THREAD____New_30_cal_bullet___What_do_ya_think__Update_1_in_first_post___2_woops_i_screwed_up_.html&page=5#i43632294

Other photos on the first page of the thread:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=1545822

* ETA: I just read the OP. Haven't read further in the thread to verify, but it looks like those are subsonic loads, so expansion would not be expected.

[stanc]

I've tended to assume most of the engineering of this new bullet can be predicted based upon similar bullets and the common body of knowledge (wow, similar to machine gun links for the 65G! ).

It's wise to always keep in mind what can easily happen whenever you ASS-U-ME something...

[stanc]

A very brief search turned up a polymer tip, but it's for a .375 bullet:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/246194/cutting-edge-bullets-esp-raptor-bullets-talon-tips-375-caliber-polymer-bag-of-25

Here's a post about swaging polymer tips:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?142900-Polymer-tips&p=1588635&viewfull=1#post1588635

And a video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40keW-W373w

[BluntForceTrauma]

The Corbin tips would be only for test purposes. Instead of the Corbin aluminums, I suppose we could get the Barnes 110 Tac-TX and steal the black polymer tips. Would that just be a better way to go, since the goal is for the bullet to be mass-produced with a polymer tip?

Added screen capture from Barnes video on YouTube.

[stanc]

The Corbin tips would be only for test purposes. Instead of the Corbin aluminums, I suppose we could get the Barnes 110 Tac-TX and steal the black polymer tips. Would that just be a better way to go...?

If the immediate goal is to modify GMX and/or LRX bullets as close as feasible to TAC-TX configuration in order to test for minimum expansion velocity (and BC?), then I'd give a definite YES!

That's because it can't be certain that bullet expansion with the aluminum tips would be the same as with polymer tips, or for that matter, if the aluminum-tipped bullets would even expand at all.

Of course, there's also the question of whether or not the polymer tips can be removed from TAC-TX bullets without damaging them.