Grendel mag size question.....

[catorres1]

I am about to order some grendel mags from AA for my son for his birthday. I am getting 5 of the 24 rounders to start. But also need something to work off the bench and, most especially, shooting prone. The 24's are going to be too long for this.

Considering the political climate, I would prefer to buy anything that might 'disappear' eventually, so I would lean towards 17 rounders for this, as I can always pick up 10's at a later date. The very nice guy I talked to at AA said he did not know that they would work off the bench, but was unsure....and had never shot them prone, so definitely did not know.

Can someone tell me quick whether they are too long for bench/prone (for a kid shooting)? If so, I'll just forgo the 17's alltogether, get a couple 10's and a few extra 24's.

But if they do work, I'll just get 5 24's, maybe 1 10 for now, and then backorder a few 17's.

Hopefully, I can get these here by the 22nd for his birthday, so gotta order today for sure. Not sure the upper is going to make it, though, but there is still hope!

Thanks!

[ricsmall]

I use the 17's and they work fine on off bench for me. Not sure about prone.

Richard

[Buster]

You might find THIS THREAD pertinent to your situation.

[catorres1]

Thanks for the responses, guys. It's for a (will be) 10 year old, and when he shoots prone, the gun is significantly lower to the ground then when an adult lies down, as his body is smaller etc. That being said, my guess is if the 17 rounder is no longer than the pistol grip, then it will work. Either way, since they were out of 17 rounders, I just ordered a few 24's, and a couple 10's for now. I'll see if I can't find a picture with the 17 rounder mounted and that might answer my question.

Or maybe what I just bought will suffice...if he has 2 10's for bench and prone stuff, I guess if he is to use hi cap, he might as well have 24's. But have to think it over a bit.

Thanks!

[Klem]

Anyone, including your son will bottom-out on the pistol grip long before a 20rd/223 mag touches the deck.

On AA's website, Magazine body shape is the same as a 20-round .223 magazine. Google Images will give you an idea of a standard 20rd mag on the rifle, prone.

[catorres1]

Klem,

Thanks for that. If the pistol grip would bottom out first, then I probably should have gotten the 17's instead of the 2 10's. Oh well, too late. I guess the 17's were out of stock anyway, so I would have gotten 1 10 regardless so he has one immediately to use, so I only 'wasted' one mag. Might go ahead and order some 17's when they come in stock, but if I have 2 'bench' mags already, maybe should just stick with 24's.

[Klem]

Without overthinking this you could just get a '15rd' mag from ASC, same price. Unless the extra rounds of the 17rd E-Lander from AA is worth the wait. No need to get the micro 10rd mags if clearing the ground when shooting prone is your concern. Those mags are for jurisdictions with prescribed mag limits.

One qualification to my previous post is that AA website claims the 17rd E-Lander mag is the same dimensions as a GI 20rd 223 mag. I suspect the 17rd is an adaptation of E-Lander's 20rd 223 mag, which is fractionally longer than a standard straight-walled GI mag. E-Lander is an Israeli company which on their website lists the dimensions of their 20rd 223 mag. While it is the same width and length as a MILSPEC GI 20-rounder it is a centimetre longer and slightly curved. This would explain how they fit a couple more rounds than ASC's '15rd mag. Truth be known I can only fit 14 rounds into my '15rd' ASC mags, and 9 rounds into their '10rd' Grendel mags.

The ASC mags come in FDE as well as black and are stainless steel. Stainless steel in the ASC mags permits a slightly longer cartridge (58.8mm as compared to 57.4mm SAAMI) which helps if you are into hand-loading.

http://www.e-lander.co.il/portfolio/m16ar15-steel-20-rd-magazine

The height of the AA/E-Lander 20rd/223 is 134.5mm (if this is the same length as a '17rd' Grendel).
The height of a MILSPEC GI 20rd/223 and the ASC '15rd' Grendel mag is 123.5mm.

The E-Lander mag is only slightly longer and still fine for all prone shooting.

After doing this research for your thread I now have an appetite for the AA/E-Lander mags.

As for the longer 30rd/223 length mags. I have a few '25rd' mags and don't remember ever using them. I always use the 15rd. As you say, the long mags get in the way when prone and benching and when lining-up over the bonnet or roofs of cars. Plus, I figure if you can't hit what you are hunting with 15 rounds then it's time to go home (or do a re-load!). Finally, it just doesn't seem right to high-volume blast with expensive, match barrels. Almost disrespectful...

[catorres1]

Klem,

Wow, that was some great info, thanks!

Since I had to place the order earlier in the day to make sure the mags arrived on time, I'll have to stick with the 5 24's and 2 10's I chose. But as I am going to buy more mags anyway, I might try getting a couple of the ASC mags to give them a try as well. That way I have a couple different flavors no matter what.

I am going to handload for this eventually, but honestly, it would not be for hunting ammo as my son's program prohibits handloads. But some day that extra length might come in handy, so I think I'll give those a try as well.

So what in particular gave you an appetite for the Elanders as opposed to the ASC's you already have?

[Klem]

So what in particular gave you an appetite for the Elanders as opposed to the ASC's you already have?

The promise of 3 extra rounds in a prone-friendly gun. Plus, I see new stuff and want it ('One's eyes are bigger than one's stomach').

[Greyfox]

If you load one round at a time as in NRA Hi-Power competition get 10 round mags. 17 round Elanders are a little long for single loading off the bench when you keep dropping the mag for each shot. I would still recommend the 10 round for prone and training someone to shoot that is young.

[catorres1]

Greyfox,

Thanks for that. We will probably often be doing 1-3 rounds at a time, so that's a really good point. So in the end, it's good I got those 10 rounders.

Thanks!

[VASCAR2]

I have taught many people to shoot and one observation when teaching young shooters. You give them a gun with a full 25-30+ round mag they'll shoot every round usually very rapidly. Sometimes having a smaller capacity mag or not loading to full capacity helps in giving an opportunity to give instruction.

[catorres1]

Yeah, this is definitely a good point as well. We have one 223 ar, and I have never let them load more than 10 rounds in it. I got higher cap mags because I believe they stand a strong chance of becoming unobtainium in short order.

But we also have a pending class with a trainer for tactical carbine, so I want to have on hand whatever he decides he wants them to use. So ultimately, I will probably get all three sizes for good measure. Can't go wrong that way, I guess!

[Greyfox]

Single loading your 10 round magazine is a good training tool. They learn how to operate an AR15. Loading on a bolt closed or bolt open with a mag inserted is two different operations. Having a round in the magazine changes what happens to the bolt after being pulled back.Knowing when to use the charging handle and forward assist. Do you have the safety on or off if you load that rifle. Teaching how to operate the rifle in a safe manner is a lot easier single loading.

[Klem]

... 17 round Elanders are a little long for single loading off the bench when you keep dropping the mag for each shot. I would still recommend the 10 round for prone and training someone to shoot that is young.

If you tilt the gun slightly along its axis when loading/unloading on the bench and the 15rd ASC's drop out fine. If using a bipod then yes, a shorter 10rd gives the most clearance.

The 5rd mags from ASC are just 10rd mags with half the mag space restricted by fully-compressed spring. They are $2 more expensive than the 10rd and easily turned into 10rds by cutting off the compressed portion of the spring. You wonder why they sell them given there's no benefit in any way (unless you are not permitted more than 5rd by law, or competition rules).

Talking about shooting more ammo with hi-cap mags. True, and in actions also. Use a semi-auto and you end up shooting more rounds than a bolt gun. But then again, that's why they exist...