AR Pistol Build: Help Appreciated

[VictusKeld]

Hello everyone, I'm currently in the process of buying/building my first firearm. I have an AP M4E1 stripped lower and a LaRue MBT. I plan on getting a SBA4 pistol brace. The rest is really up in the air...

My goal is to have an AR pistol with a barrel roughly 12 inches long, that "maximizes" accuracy and reliability with cheap 100-110 grain steel-cased ammo. Until, I get into reloading--which will likely take at least a year or two--that's what I expect I will primarily be shooting for practice. I also really like the concept of a compact little takedown gun for use as a truck gun or fitting into a bug-out bag. Something like this (SKU: HAVADV556-1). I tried attaching it as a picture, but the file was too large and I was admittedly too lazy to try and figure out how to make the file smaller. I would prefer getting a preassembled upper, but can't imagine that there is something that has everything I'm looking for; I haven't seen one anyway.


With my intentions at least vaguely stated, I have a few questions I would really appreciate your help with.

1. Accuracy with cheap ammo. What are some suggestions for barrel/bolt selection? Chambering (Grendel vs Grendel 2 vs etc)? Twist rates? Preassembled uppers?

2. Takedown. Anyone have any experience with takedown systems like the Havoc QRB or know of any systems or uppers built with that kind of capability?


Thank you very much for any advice or suggestions. I really appreciate it.

[mdram]

1. look here

http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?18882-LIMITED-Lilja-10-5-quot-12-5-quot-14-5-quot-16-quot-Barrels-(option-for-complete-upper)

http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?20600-In-Stock-7-5-to-10-5-Inch-Barrel-in-stock-and-on-sale

2. why not just take the upper off?

[Shooterrex]

law folder

[A5BLASTER]

Best chance for accuracy with wolf ammo is going to be the 11 inch AA barrel.

Get the lapping tool from where ever it's in stock and lapp every upper from here on out.

Can't help with the other question.

Waiting on my 12.5 inch barrel from PF to get here so I can finish my pistol/soon to be sbr grendel.

[delt475]

What is the benefit to the QRB system? AR-15s are designed to be taken apart. Removing the barrel and reinstalling it separately from your optic will 100% change your poi. I know it says 1 moa or under but this seems pretty silly to me. You are saving maybe 5 inches of room by using that?

Type II bolts/barrels are the most common. I would look for one of these.

As for ammo, cheap steal-cased and accurate really dont tend to go together. Wolf ammo has never been known to be accurate. Also, AR?s were not developed to shoot steel-cased ammo. You may find whatever barrel you buy hates it. If you are not going to reload, I would buy a hodgepodge of ammo and see what shoots best in your gun. Planning on buying bulk cheap ammo is a nice plan. What if your gun shoots 4-5 moa with it?

This is your first gun, buy a complete upper

[LRRPF52]

I started out with the MGI QBC system when I was first putting my toes in the water with 6.5 Grendel.

I soon went to a dedicated upper and have never looked back.

One thing I don't like about the LAW folders is the significant weight increase, as well as the width profile, but they do allow shortening the overall package with a quick option for putting it into operation.

[VictusKeld]

Thanks for all of the input everyone. I genuinely do appreciate it.

1. look here

http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?18882-LIMITED-Lilja-10-5-quot-12-5-quot-14-5-quot-16-quot-Barrels-(option-for-complete-upper)

http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?20600-In-Stock-7-5-to-10-5-Inch-Barrel-in-stock-and-on-sale

2. why not just take the upper off?

Those Lilja barrels seem like a good option. I'll keep following that thread for updates and try to see what prices would look like from rebby. Do you think the Lilja would do well with light steel-cased stuff? Is it overkill in terms of quality? How would that compare to the 11.5" AA barrel?

The main motivation for the takedown feature is a much higher level of possible portability and concealment. I estimate that an upper with a 12" barrel would be a little over 21" long, depending on how the barrel extension overlap plays out in reality, whereas the takedown options shorten that to 14" or so overall length for the longest part. For regular use, that probably doesn't matter very much. But I really like the idea of being able to fit a firearm as capable as a Grendel AR into a tackle box, child's backpack, or perhaps even a large purse.

That's probably just me, and that's ok. I'm not really sold on that aspect of the build yet anyway. I'm mostly curious about matching the "right" barrel and bolt for the ammo. I'm not expecting incredible accuracy or anything, maybe reliably under 3 MOA. Under 2 would be magical dream land expectations.

LRRPF52, was it the inaccuracy of the MGI system that turned you off to those styles of systems? I was hoping that being able to pick my own barrel would alleviate a good chunk of that. Also, the Havoc appears to have a sturdier lockup than the Hydra did. LaRue's PredatOBR seems to do pretty well with a takedown system. Maybe, I'm just fooling myself though. Also, it's easy to say now but, the weight increase isn't a big deal to me.

[mdram]

Do you think the Lilja would do well with light steel-cased stuff? Is it overkill in terms of quality?

no clue, the wolf can be unpredictable

and there is no such thing as overkill on quality, if it fits in your budget

[VictusKeld]

Yeah, I guess I never included budget. I would be looking at around $1,000 for the completed pistol, not including the cost of any of those adapters I may or may not end up with. $1,500 would be my absolute maximum.

[mdram]

spreadsheet time

i think the majority of the budget should go
barrel, glass, trigger, everything else

[Shooterrex]

I have a 12 in PSA barrel that shoots the wolf right at 1.5 moa

[Rangerofthenorth]

Best chance for accuracy with wolf ammo is going to be the 11 inch AA barrel.

Get the lapping tool from where ever it's in stock and lapp every upper from here on out.

Can't help with the other question.

Waiting on my 12.5 inch barrel from PF to get here so I can finish my pistol/soon to be sbr grendel.

+1 on the AA barrel, mine loves Wolf and also really loves Hornady Black

[VictusKeld]

Shooterrex, that's kind of what I was wondering. Maybe the less expensive barrels fire the less expensive ammo better.

Rangerofthenorth, what's a rough accuracy estimate on both?

[kpswihart]

But I really like the idea of being able to fit a firearm as capable as a Grendel AR into a tackle box, child's backpack, or perhaps even a large purse.

After 20+ years as an leo, sometimes actions or statements draw my attention. This wording did just that. I'm all about our individual rights and have spent my entire adult life doing what I can to protect them. My personal opinion is that we, who enjoy our rights, should do all that we can to maintain them. I'm not here to throw rocks at anyone, but a member with four posts making a statement like this raises some red flags for me.

If this is a legitimate thread, it would probably have been better to use a different example of concealing an AR than a child's backpack, so as not to give anything to those who wish to take our rights from us. If this is not a legitimate post, we as members should be more cognizant of how we give advice and to who.

Again, I'm not trying to discourage anyone from learning or from giving advice, and I'm not trying to call anyone out. I really appreciate the members here and have learned a ton of information and continue to learn everyday. IMHO it is beneficial for folks to pay attention to how they are asking questions and how they answer questions.

[kpswihart]

But I really like the idea of being able to fit a firearm as capable as a Grendel AR into a tackle box, child's backpack, or perhaps even a large purse.

After 20+ years as an leo, sometimes actions or statements draw my attention. This wording did just that. I'm all about our individual rights and have spent my entire adult life doing what I can to protect them. My personal opinion is that we, who enjoy our rights, should do all that we can to maintain them. I'm not here to throw rocks at anyone, but a member with four posts making a statement like this raises some red flags for me.

If this is a legitimate thread, it would probably have been better to use a different example of concealing an AR than using a child's backpack, so as not to give anything to those who wish to take our rights from us. If this is not a legitimate post, we as members should be more cognizant of how we give advice and to who.

Again, I'm not trying to discourage anyone from learning or from giving advice, and I'm not trying to call anyone out, this phrase just jumped out at me. I really appreciate the members here and have learned a ton of information and continue to learn everyday. IMHO it is beneficial for folks to pay attention to how they are asking questions and how questions are answered.