My friend held a burglar at gunpoint this morning, criminal crapped his pants!

[melensdad]

I read this kind of thinking often and actually had the instructor in my CC class mention handloads. I also have yet to see anyone cite a single incident wherein somebody was sued because they used handloads or a modified gun. In Alaska if you shoot somebody that is in the process of committing a felony, the law protects you from civil suit. Wouldn't matter if I shot him with a mini gun.

This too is Indiana law.

A "justified shoot" is a "justified shoot" and it doesn't matter if you shot the guy with a box stock Taurus revolver, a custom USPSA race gun, a finely engraved and exhibition grade walnut stocked Ruger No 1, or any other gun.

[bwaites]

melensdad,

I agree that the mental preparation is at least as important as the physical, and appreciate your pointing that out, it helps all of us.

I, too, have listened to the for/against reloaded ammo for self protection. I don't think it matters, either, but we do live in a very litigious society, and you can bet it will get some mention at any trial!

[StoneTower]

Maybe we need an "Other stuff" section. I am interested in anything gun related and if I get some help in some other area from guys that have similar interests it makes me happy. If someone on the BBQ forum can tell me how to make my AR10 run more smoothly or how I can hit long distance targets more accurately I am just fine with that. Accurate information that I am interested in is what I care about. It should be in the correct section and maybe an "everything else" section is what we need.

[melensdad]

I, too, have listened to the for/against reloaded ammo for self protection. I don't think it matters, either, but we do live in a very litigious society, and you can bet it will get some mention at any trial!

But, according to the same Indiana code I cited above: No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting . . . by reasonable means necessary.

Maybe we need an "Other stuff" section. I am interested in anything gun related and if I get some help in some other area from guys that have similar interests it makes me happy. If someone on the BBQ forum can tell me how to make my AR10 run more smoothly or how I can hit long distance targets more accurately I am just fine with that. Accurate information that I am interested in is what I care about. It should be in the correct section and maybe an "everything else" section is what we need.

While I was a regular member at the old 6.5 Grendel forum, I'm still a newbie here. I won't presume to tell the owners/moderators what to do with their forum. However if they ask me, well then I'd be in total agreement with you!

[bwaites]

Hanka and I have discussed adding an "anything else" section. However, on the old forum, about 95% of the arguments and almost all the nastiness happened in that catch all section.

Hanka really wants us to be focused on the Grendel, to the exclusion of that other stuff. Without it, we've managed to maintain a pretty civil group here, and I personally like that, it makes my job, for which the pay is so incredibly high, much more enjoyable!

I'm sure he'll see this, and chime in, and maybe give us his thoughts.

[fanofflyn]

I agree with everybody.

[mtn_shooter]

Just be careful about having to shoot someone with a gun modified for competition in any way. Anything that you do to make a gun easier to shoot than a factory gun can be used in civil court to try to prove that you were trying to make it easier for you to kill someone, or intent to shoot them or kill. I know, it's scuzzy, but no need to help the bad guys. Also, no handloads, same reason. I carry ammunition marked by the manufacturer as "Defense", or the same ammunition used by the police department. No custom gun shop guns for carry or defense pistols. I don't necessarily agree with it being right, but I took it as good advice.

Authorized deadly force is authorized. Baseball bat, bow/arrow, handloads, 2 oz trigger, vehicle etc. etc. Doesn't matter so long as you don't go overboard and mutilate him, or shoot him after he's no longer a threat.

EDIT: I suck at seeing multiple pages. Didn't mean to say what's already been said.

[LRRPF52]

I recall a Mossad Ayoob article where he cited a case in which hand loads were used. The close-in GSR pattern didn't have a lot of dispersion on the slain criminal, so they questioned the law-abiding defender's story about how far he actually was from the deceased.

Ayoob's suggestion if you absolutely must use hand loads, was to keep enough of them as spares to be ballistically tested by the investigators WHEN they take your firearm, so they have a benchmark to judge by, rather than one of their factory loads.

He also suggested carrying the standard duty ammo that your local LE Agency or agencies use, as this helps if the case goes to trial, since there is usually a vetting process for duty ammunition.

With one of my personal carry guns, I found the factory trigger to be a potential liability in that rapid strings were difficult to keep within the vital zones, and even the target, so I upgraded to a better, smoother sear. I never place my finger on the trigger until I'm going to shoot, so I prefer this solution for my needs. If I lived in a State that didn't respect my basic human rights of self-protection, I wouldn't live there. I have zero desire to every use my blasters for personal defense because of the associated BS with hearing loss, confiscation of protective tools, and likely retaliation when the family of a deceased aggressor discovers your name and where you live, but I'd rather still be alive, so I maintain an appropriate posture as best I can.

[fanofflyn]

[fanofflyn]

[fanofflyn]

But all that considered, I still agree with everybody.

[LRRPF52]

That's the one! I think I read it in a gun rag a few years ago, at least one of those cases, but Ayoob was definitely the author.

[blackfoot]

Sooo.....if you have more than one type of factory ammo in your house you are in the same boat.

[fanofflyn]

Not necessarily, they can all be tested. But with what the media will call "an arsenal", it may make it difficult. I guess I'll have to deal with that one.

[fkleinbu]

What justification does the office have to take the gun?? Assuming it was not discharged, it would not be evidence..

I'll bet if I had snuck up on the perp, and wacked him with a cast iron skillet they wouldn't take the skillet..

I too would have a very tough time giving up my gun.. I will be happy to render it safe (unload, remove slide, put it back into my safe etc), but give it up, man that would suck.. What if the bad guy's buddy were to come back after the LEO's left.. I would be defenseless - ok not really, but pretend I only had one gun..

flk k