Satern is starting to accept returns

[Lead Chucker]

I agree with you nugginfutz!! Im not sure what Dave and Satern are doing and at this point I dont care. I was just trying to find out what was going on like eveyone else, and thats what Dave had said. I wasnt saying he was right, just thats what he said. Thats why I said "from what I understand" case closed as far as im concerned. Again im not trying to stir the mess and sorry if I did some. Thanks for the update on the reply!

[NugginFutz]

You know that one "demotivational" poster that shows a guy standing on the street over a manhole, with a flood of water draining into it, and it looks like the world is going to be sucked in forever? That's what you've done here. If we can't have rumor and innuendo, misinformation and outright lies, you've effectively destroyed the interwebs as we've grown to know and love 'em!

John

John,

You give me far too much credit. I'm certain you know, as well as I do, that the rumor mongering and high-school innuendo will continue un-abated in spite of my plea for intellectual honesty and accountability.



Yep - just checked. Still there.

[LRRPF52]

If you really wanted to create a circular firing squad within the Grendel manufacturers and consumers, you couldn't have pulled it off better.

Crank out barrels with short throats, blame the chamber design....check

Crank out barrels with long throats, blame the chamber design....check

Find a willing minion whose knowledge about these things equates to amateur levels that only degrade as more information is made available to them....check

Sounds like a campaign to unseat the legitimacy of the Grendel's SAAMI standard. Nice job!

[Lead Chucker]

Here is my take on it. Im just a consumer that buys the product. I see one manufacture saying the other is wrong and vise versa. I dont know anyone at Hornady or Dave at PTG. All I stated is what Dave said at PTG, a major Manufacture of reamers. If he doesnt know what he is talking about then he and Hornady should talk. I didn't say I heard it from a buddy down the street or on some island some where. Im not a lier and im not trying to dubuck the grendel in any way. I have friends now into the grendel because of me and my dad got one. I like all others just want what we paid to have. If the manufactures want to sling mud on each other then thats their fight. But dont accuse members of spreading lies unless you know them. To be quiet honest this used to be a great place to read and learn and help others out but lately its become quiet hostile with a lot of flaming going around.

[NugginFutz]

Lead Chucker - I really don't think you are the brunt of all this. If you remember, there was another member here, who stirred up an awful lot of crap. It was only that you brought the latest "hearsay" into the mix, and that was a catalyst for the latest flurry. The whole thing goes way beyond you. I can see where you might have gotten the idea you were getting pounded flat over this, so allow me to emphasize and repeat myself, it isn't you that the comments are about - at least for my own part. So please relax, and try not to take it so personally.

[LRRPF52]

Lead Chucker,

That's how I see it as well. I just want to be able to buy factory ammo, and go shoot, with the accuracy results I know the cartridge is capable of. The manufacturers who have resorted to petty little girl antics have either purposely spread their drama to customers, or allowed it to evolve out of genuine & innocent ignorance, incompetence, arrogance, or a combination of all 3.

Detractors of the Grendel have stirred the pot due to malice and nature of their deviant personalities, and sat back and enjoyed reveling in the aftermath.

I don't see any of that from you. In this whole mess, they have succeeded in sewing seeds of discontent among people who just want a standardized product with known performance, not blown primers, pulled bullets, or crazy jump leading to erratic grouping.

The thing that is really shady is when someone who is in a critical position in the industry to steer reamer designs purposely tries to deviate from the standard because of ego, this is the end result. These types of people enjoy seeing failure at the customer level, which is truly sick if you ask me. Instead of hiding behind in the shadows, trash-talking people behind their backs on the phone and at SHOT, they should identify themselves in the open, make their case, and let customers see who they really are.

While I was at SHOT, I met one of them. The first things out of his mouth upon meeting me was to launch into a bad-mouthing session of Bill A. What type of person does that? Who chooses to introduce themselves to you by attacking another human being and attempts to sway your opinion of that person in a negative way upon meeting? This guy is very well-known in the industry for making/importing barrels. When I was doing accuracy testing for another company that builds precision rifles, it was extremely difficult to get those barrels to shoot from that company, and you will never see them in 6mm and 6.5mm bores placing in BR competitions. People use them because they can deliver volume, and they are halfway decent.

The industry is filled with negative people who hold grudges, and are unable to withhold their pre-teen drama from customers. After interacting with some of them, you feel lowered, dirty, and a lesser human being. I listen to my instinct, and avoid people like that. Life is hard enough as it is without them.

[JASmith]

...and that about covers it.

[BluntForceTrauma]

Yeah, hey, Lead Chucker, nothing here was directed at you. Sorry for the confusion.

John

[Lead Chucker]

Thanks guys. Yes LRRPF52 that covers it very well with much class!

[PrecisionFirearms]

As normal, LRRPF52 has it right.

And I think this is a DEAD HORSE, Lets Stop Beating it, it smells rotten to everyone.

[PrecisionFirearms]

Yeah, hey, Lead Chucker, nothing here was directed at you. Sorry for the confusion.

John

+1

[NugginFutz]

As normal, LRRPF52 has it right.

And I think this is a DEAD HORSE, Lets Stop Beating it, it smells rotten to everyone.

^^^ This!!!

[BluntForceTrauma]