HOWA Grendel 6.5 Out of the Box, Early Impressions

[adamjp]

If the barrel is shot-out the quickest approach is a relief cut in the barrel immediately in front of the action. This takes the pressure off the joint and allows an ordinary action wrench to do the job.

[sneaky one]

Bill, price ?

[kmon]

Do not know the price on the Grendels but looked at a 223 yesterday at Cabela's for $499.99. It was the light weight basic black version. That price is for the current sale regular price from them is $599.99

[bwaites]

I'm guessing but I would bet street price will be in the $600 range.

[Matt @ LSI]

Price for the Grendel's will be the same as all other mini actions

[wog13]

good afternoon did we ever get a range report on how this shot ? i am looking forward to arrival on this rifle thanks

[Rust]

The issue with the barrel threading for US based smiths is in how (mechanical) lathes cut threads. There's a series of gears that are linked both to the spindle/chuck, and to the lead screw, which drives the carriage with the cutting tool. The different gears control how far the carriage feeds with each revolution, which in turn works out how many threads per inch you're cutting. Since the gears each feed at a rate which is fixed by the number of teeth and size of the gear, you're limited to the thread pitches you can cut by the specific gears in your machine.
In order to change from inch to metric you need to A: have the appropriate metric gears, and B: swap them into/out of your lathe in order to cut the threads. Most gunsmiths either will not have the gears, or don't want to be troubled with the huge hassle of setting up for a one off job.
A CNC machine generally uses magnets to reference its position and spindle speeds, with independent drives for each moving part of the machine. While this in very versatile in that it can cut virtually any pattern you can imagine (and program), it can also be a pain in the butt to do a one off job. For instance the CNC lathe at the shop I work in can thread any pattern I want it to, but in order for it to do it I have to write a program for it, set all the tools up, test it, and finally run it. With a mechanical lathe I can just slap the correct tooling in the quick change tool post, touch off on the part, set feeds and speeds and be making chips in a matter of minutes. Between the faster set up, and huge cost of a CNC big enough to do barrel work, mechanical lathes are more practical for a gunsmith to have in their shop.


But onto what really matters, how does it shoot?

[bwaites]

I've completed the barrel break in as required by Howa. If the weather holds, I'll have a range report later in the week, (maybe a preliminary late tonite!).

[Rebels010]

Any update? Patiently waiting...

[bwaites]

Ok, sorry to not have posted so far. I will have a new post later tonite. I needed to check on a few things.

[sneaky one]

Is this the boltie bbl. being used to test the Cerb from BFT? If so, Hawwww whatttt?

Have the howa ceo. produce a group of less than 2 " at 100 yd. Good luck on that quest - ceo guy. PROVE that it shoots...

You'll sell more that way!

[bwaites]

9 days ago I had the chance to take the Howa back to the range. After mounting the scope that came with the rifle, and using it for breakin, I realized that it simply was not going to work for any kind of accuracy testing. I swapped to my Target Nightforce 12-42 for that days testing, and, after initial zeroing of that scope set to work shooting groups and establishing Chrono data.

As best laid plans of men and mice often go, the Stars were not in alignment, and I did not get sufficient Chrono data due to a malfunctioning CED M2 Chrono. I cannot figure out why it is not working properly, so it will be going back for some factory checks. However, it did work enough times to get data for both factory Hornady and my hand loads to tell me that the velocities are within 50 FPS of my AR 20 inch Grendel, so I'm comfortable that I am seeing realistic velocities.

However, I could not initially shoot accurate groups with ANY load. This was very frustrating, because last time out, just while breaking in the barrel, I was able to shoot some sub MOA groups, even using the scope the factory sent. After the first round of 10 sets of 5 shots were not achieving anywhere near what I expected, I really went over the setup in an effort to figure out what the issue was. I finally found that my barrel was being touched, at times, by the front stop rod on my rest. It didn't happen with every target, but as I had about ten targets set up, all arranged on a large 4x5 foot backer, it would touch the barrel, especially on the lower two rows of targets. Once I corrected this, groups began to improve. I cannot be sure if it was that I was sometimes touching that rod, or if the barrel was slowly improving with breaking in, however.

From that point forward I was able to shoot significantly better groups, however. Since Matt had reported good groups with factory Amax ammo, I used that as my base. My best group with it after the above discovery was right at 1 MOA. Not as good as I had hoped, but not bad for a new factory rifle and barrel.

I then proceeded on to some hand loads. All were in Hornady brass (which will become important shortly). My best handloaded ammo produced this group, almost identical in size to the factory load. I think a little more development with this load will improve accuracy. I simply used loads that had been shown to be accurate in my AR Grendels, and I think this load can be seated out a tiny bit further and will shoot better, so I will load it like that for the next go around.



I then moved on to loads running the 130 AR Hybrid from Berger. These loads were also developed for my AR's, but one of them appears to be a golden apple.



A second looks very good, also. This load has shot sub 1/2 MOA from two of my three AR's, so I think it could be a winner also.

[bwaites]

Now that I had nice groups, I loaded the Cerberus bullets and got, well......squat!







I thought I had something, with that first shot in the black, but then....



Here again, I thought I might be working....the first two touched and then......

I love the way these bullets look, and I have rolled them and the tips seem to stay perfectly in place, the tip/body junction is glass smooth. With my eyes closed, I can identify the junction about 50% of the time. They are all well machined and I believe well assembled. I REALLY want these to group well. I have some of each left, so I will continue research!

[bwaites]

Finally, I ran across something completely unexpected. While testing, I attempted to test factory Alexander Arms loads built with Lapua brass. While they chambered and fired just fine, they would not extract. After repeated examples, using AA loads from the past 5-6 years and including multiple different bullets, I realized it must be the Lapua brass. It appears that the Lapua brass is simply a few thousandths smaller than Hornady brass. It will thus slide very slightly more into the chamber, thus the extractor will not grab the rim for extraction.

I am not 100% sure that this is the cause, but it is the only plausible explanation for the phenomena that I can deduce.

On arrival home and after cleaning the rifle, I very carefully tried multiple different lots of Hornady factory loads, and it all chambered and extracted 100% of the time. I then tried hand loads built with Hornady brass and had 100% success.

At point, I tried Wolf Gold MPT ammo and found that it extracts about 50% of the time. If the rifle is tilted back, the ammo falls out easily.

I then retried each load of Lapua/Alexander Arms factory ammunition I had. Not a single one would extract, but each will fall from the chamber when the rifle is tilted 30-45 degrees.

I have contacted Matt and he is already working on the solution to the problem. I suspect that the only available factory ammunition used for testing has been Hornady and that the rifle was carefully set up to that ammunition. As members of the forum are aware, new Lapua brass tends to run small. I have typically resized my Lapua brass back to factory dimensions as closely as possible. I will now leave it slightly larger, and see if that resolves the issue.

Matt at LSI has been incredibly supportive and helpful, and once this was discovered, he has been in touch with Bill Alexander to discuss what might be the issue.

I will continue to update this as I receive information.

[kmon]

Interesting find on the non Hornady brass loads.

Your Berger 130 CFE load looks about like what I expect from my 2 rifles and that combination, seems to be one of those sweet spot loads we look for.