6.5 Grendel on it's own merits

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  • tdbru
    Warrior
    • Dec 2019
    • 749

    6.5 Grendel on it's own merits

    I think I've read on this subforum or a couple of the other subforums, statements that say that w/o the AR platform, the 6.5 Grendel would cease to exist as one would go to the 6.5 CM, 260Rem, 6.5x55, 6.5 PRC, or other higher performance 6.5s.

    While it's true that the 6.5 Grendel is of lower performance than many/most of the other 6.5s out there, there are a couple of things about the 6.5 Grendel that tend to get overlooked in comparison to larger 6.5 cartridges.

    a. recoil. lets face it, lower mv and smaller powder charges for the same bullet and rifle weight means less recoil. one may or may not care about this, but there are situations that makes the lower recoil very attractive. training new shooters comes to mind. also no matter how macho we are, it's been documented over and over again that people shoot better with less recoil. So hitting where you're aiming with the Grendel is better than missing the target with the 6.5-300 Wby every day.

    b. and the lower performance also comes due to about 1/2 or less of the powder charges used in comparison to the higher performance 6.5s. If you reload and currently struggle to find powder, using less per round right now may seem like a good thing.

    c. for the same barrel length, with the lower chamber pressure and smaller powder charges, you get a lower muzzle blast/report. muzzle blast noise can be an issue. Some landowners may let you hunt on their land if you're round is not so loud it's obnoxious. of course for you folks with cans on the end that might be a moot point as well.

    d. the lower chamber pressure and petite powder appetite results in very long barrel life. Go look at the barrel life of the 6.5-300 Wby. Ultimate performance. replace barrel by 500 rounds or so. the 6.5 Grendel barrel life is probably close to 10K or more. Throat erosion should be pretty low with the lower chamber pressure and petite powder capacity. Many competitive shooters using 6.5CM are replacing barrels 1 or 2x a year. Having a barrel last a long time at top accuracy always is a good thing in my book. Yours too probably.

    e. lower chamber pressure typically results in higher number of reloads per case before the case gives out. loose primer pockets, etc. If you don't reload, a moot point, but when you see a note on the reloading subforum that xxxx has 6.5 G brass for sale and by the time you hit the link it's already all gone, getting 10+ reloads out of the brass you do have is much better than 2 or 3 for sure.

    f. lower weight/smaller volume for the ammo. probably a small issue, but, on a backpack hunt when you're counting oz, 5 to 10 rounds of Grendel will be lighter and take up less room in the pack than the bigger 6.5s.

    So yes, the bigger cased 6.5s do have more performance of course, but even aside from the AR platform, there are a lot of features of the 6.5 Grendel that hold good merit all on their own.

    at least that's my opinion.
    -tdbru
  • CJW
    Chieftain
    • Jun 2019
    • 1350

    #2

    Comment

    • Billinthedesert
      Bloodstained
      • Dec 2018
      • 70

      #3
      Great thread and great answer, Chuck.

      Comment

      • LR1955
        Super Moderator
        • Mar 2011
        • 3357

        #4
        TB:

        I doubt the Grendel is going anywhere soon. I do not see anything even similar on the market.

        I see it as the most ideal Scout Rifle cartridge readily available on the market today.

        If someone comes out with a decent Scout Rifle frame and stock for a Grendel, I would go for it. I accept that I will probably ditch the factory barrel but to me that would be a small price to pay.

        The thing is this, the stock would have to fit me. Skelton stocks I do not care for because they never fit well. You would be amazed at how barrel length becomes a non issue if the stock is made to fit.

        Still, I would keep it down to carbine length. Bolt gun, ten shot detachable magazine would also be fine but twenty would be better.

        An ideal cartridge for this sort of frame to be used for general blasting and hunting.

        If I had a problem with a rifle, I would contact LRRP-52 and Montana too. They are very skilled.

        LR-55

        Comment

        • LRRPF52
          Super Moderator
          • Sep 2014
          • 8612

          #5
          NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

          CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

          6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

          www.AR15buildbox.com

          Comment

          • meta_gabbro
            Unwashed
            • Jul 2022
            • 18

            #6
            Bearing in mind that I'm a primarily a hunter, the couple times that I've been asked why I like the cartridge so much I usually wind up comparing it to the 243. Folks here are making loads in 18" barrels that match classic 243 loads out of 24" barrels, with 25-35% less powder, and in smaller and lighter guns. It's cheaper to practice with than a 243, and it's less of a barrel burner. I understand that it's not everyone's cup of tea, especially the if-it-aint-broke-dont-fix-it crowd that'll stick to the tried and true standbys, but for folks who appreciate effective cartridges in handy guns it really deserves a hard look.

            Comment

            • LRRPF52
              Super Moderator
              • Sep 2014
              • 8612

              #7
              Yup. It covers down on that space where .250 Savage, 6.5x54 Mannlicher, .30-30 Winchester, and .243 Winchester are typically used by hunters, while also performing where .308 Winchester did for target work, but fits in the AR-15 receiver set with minimal parts differences.

              Barre life is better than .308 Winchester, since there is less powder to convert, 30 degree shoulder, and lower chamber pressure.
              NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

              CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

              6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

              www.AR15buildbox.com

              Comment

              • Modoc
                Unwashed
                • Jun 2022
                • 24

                #8

                Comment

                • Stinky Coyote
                  Warrior
                  • Dec 2017
                  • 641

                  #9
                  I'm Canadian so no AR's here, I was all about this cartridge about 2005 when I found out about it and studied ballistics, had to wait until CZ came out with about 12 years later as I only do factory stuff/ammo etc. Have been hunting with it every since (2017/18). 100% this cartridge stands alone without a specific platform...bolt action makes just as much sense as AR imo. It's basically a 3/4 scale .308 running 168's with 55% less recoil, same sd, bc, and impact velocities/trajectory to 500 yards. It hangs with a .243 to a few hundred yards then starts to walk away from the .243 after that (factory to factory) and recoils less. You can't do more with 30 grains of powder than the 6.5g and 123 eld-m combo, overachiever, zero fat, maybe one of the most versatile combo's on the planet when considering all shooters, all disciplines/uses, life, cost etc.

                  Comment

                  • Double Naught Spy
                    Chieftain
                    • Sep 2013
                    • 2570

                    #10
                    Originally posted by tdbru View Post
                    I think I've read on this subforum or a couple of the other subforums, statements that say that w/o the AR platform, the 6.5 Grendel would cease to exist as one would go to the 6.5 CM, 260Rem, 6.5x55, 6.5 PRC, or other higher performance 6.5.
                    If ARs went away, 6.5 Grendel might not cease to exist, but its popularity would decline substantially. That isn't apt to happen, however. If ARs went away, I don't see a whole lot of manufacturers clambering to make other types of guns to fill the void for 6.5 Grendel. 6.5 Grendel has been all that popular with non-AR platforms.

                    Now, had the statement been that 6.5 Grendel would never have existed without the AR15, I would have to say that the claim is correct. I don't know, maybe somebody somewhere would have come up with a non-AR15-based chamber cartridge that uses the same amount of powder and gets the exact same performance. People are wildcatting all sorts of cartridges and all claim some sort of superiority over existing cartridges, LOL. However, it would likely have been called something else.
                    Kill a hog. Save the planet.
                    My videos - https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

                    Comment

                    • Stinky Coyote
                      Warrior
                      • Dec 2017
                      • 641

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Double Naught Spy View Post
                      If ARs went away, 6.5 Grendel might not cease to exist, but its popularity would decline substantially. That isn't apt to happen, however. If ARs went away, I don't see a whole lot of manufacturers clambering to make other types of guns to fill the void for 6.5 Grendel. 6.5 Grendel has been all that popular with non-AR platforms.

                      Now, had the statement been that 6.5 Grendel would never have existed without the AR15, I would have to say that the claim is correct. I don't know, maybe somebody somewhere would have come up with a non-AR15-based chamber cartridge that uses the same amount of powder and gets the exact same performance. People are wildcatting all sorts of cartridges and all claim some sort of superiority over existing cartridges, LOL. However, it would likely have been called something else.
                      Not an argument to you but just adding to these possibles brought up.

                      Can we imagine America without AR's? LOL so that whole argument goes away. And Grendel was developed to improve on AR 5.56 downrange performance. So it was inevitable as that was always a need and desire, someone was going to keep working on solving this and provide a 21st century response.

                      Here's another take, the CZ 527 in 7.62x39, the Ruger m77 boat paddle 7.62x39. There have been bolt guns in AK-47 cartridge for a long time and also bolt action .223's (.222's etc.) for a long time, they all go away without AR? no AR's and few AK's.

                      There have always been AR Length cartridges or a micro action length class in bolt actions and there's been an evolution in ballistics and gear over the tail end of the 20th century and into the 21st century so all areas, action types/lengths, have seen 21st century ballistic options come available. Unavoidable that the 6.5 Grendel came out, AR or not.

                      Comment

                      • Bully
                        Bloodstained
                        • Jan 2022
                        • 25

                        #12
                        The 6PPC has been around a lonnnnnnnngg time. The Grendel has a lot in common with it. Would the Grendel "survive" without the AR platform? My guess is that it would. However it would have much less popularity and would be a handloader only cartridge for the most part. The AR platform keeps folks in the factory ammo world.
                        Remember, most folks that shoot only buy at big box, both their guns and their ammo. People on forums like this are in the minority.



                        Comment

                        • Dino11
                          Unwashed
                          • Aug 2020
                          • 16

                          #13
                          Grendel was on my list of must have... but then the announcement of the 6mm Arc came about. I did my home work and settled for the smaller caliber. The ARC does everything the Grendel does and a little more. Better velocity, that makes up for the lower weight bullet, longer range with less drop off of velocity due to the higher BC. Way more accurate. I have shot it out to a mile with 109 and 115 grain bullets with very good success. Hold over at a mile is 32 Mills compared to over 60 with the Grendel.

                          You can take down medium sized game with it, The deer in Ohio are not the little dog sized deer you find in some states, they are rather large and drop dead right in their tracks with this round out to 250+ yards. Shot placement is a big thing here, but the round is extremely accurate and one of the flatest shooting bullets in it's category.

                          Barrel life is very good as well, very much similar to 5.56. To bad only one ammo manufacture makes ammo for it right now, but it is a reloaders round.
                          Last edited by Dino11; 11-19-2022, 10:05 PM. Reason: spelling

                          Comment

                          • biodsl
                            Chieftain
                            • Aug 2011
                            • 1718

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Dino11 View Post
                            The ARC does everything the Grendel does and a little more.
                            Popcorn popped.
                            Paul Peloquin

                            Did government credibility die of Covid or with Covid?

                            Comment

                            • Stolivar
                              Unwashed
                              • Feb 2019
                              • 14

                              #15
                              Works great in a cva pistol with a 14 inch barrel

                              Comment

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