6.5 Grendel on it's own merits

[603 Country]

[LRRPF52]

[eggman918]

My youngest grand daughter enjoys my heavy AR and I have been thinking a nice light Grendel bolt gun might be in order, a younger still grand son will be another possible user
for it so how can Grandma say no. A nice light Grendel bolt gun should be a joy to shoot.

[Bonas]

The loss of sub $.30 per round Barnaul ammo for Grendel might prove to be a heavy blow for the cartridge. That cheap plinking ammo really set Grendel apart from its competitors. I'm not seeing many new adopters of the cartridge.

[JASmith]

...I'm not seeing many new adopters of the cartridge.

What sources do you see that support the conclusion?

How do these numbers compare with other cartridges?

Remember, a new kid on the block with heavy support by a major cartridge company almost always sees a significant flurry of interest in the first few years. Then the tried and true tend to come out on top.

The Grendel is now in its 20th year since first being introduced at the Blackwater Shoot-Out in 2003.

[gldprimr]

[eggman918]

gldprimr, I agree 100% it has enough of what is needed to do any task we would ever call on it to do and as you said in an extremely user friendly package.

[Stinky Coyote]

What sources do you see that support the conclusion?

How do these numbers compare with other cartridges?

Remember, a new kid on the block with heavy support by a major cartridge company almost always sees a significant flurry of interest in the first few years. Then the tried and true tend to come out on top.

The Grendel is now in its 20th year since first being introduced at the Blackwater Shoot-Out in 2003.

Agree, it's a late bloomer if anything, it's just getting warmed up. But it's earned it's stripes and proven itself now for a long enough period. There's no flies on it. You can't do more for ~30 grains of powder burned. Lots of support factory wise in rifles and ammo and that is only going to steadily expand throughout this century.

[Bonas]

What sources do you see that support the conclusion?

How do these numbers compare with other cartridges?

Remember, a new kid on the block with heavy support by a major cartridge company almost always sees a significant flurry of interest in the first few years. Then the tried and true tend to come out on top.

The Grendel is now in its 20th year since first being introduced at the Blackwater Shoot-Out in 2003.

I base it on my personal experience at matches. These are gas gun matches that go out to 900 or so yards. Everyone I see adopting a new small frame AR cartridge is going 6ARC. Within this group, Grendel is generally considered inferior to 6ARC. With cheap ammo readily available, Grendel was, at least to me, a no brainer. With that ammo pretty well gone, 6.8 SPC is arguably better for short range hunting, while 6ARC is better for longer range target shooting. I think Grendel is a great cartridge, but the fact remains that a big edge it had over competitors is gone. Just look at this forum. There's not exactly a flood of new members pouring in. Beyond that, Federal seems to have stopped producing ammo for Grendel. Prvi seems to be going away too. Hornady, Barnes, Nosler, and AA seem to be the only companies currently making new supplies. Of those, Hornady is the only major player. Again, it's a great cartridge, but its usage seems to be shrinking, not growing, at least to me. Hopefully, Hornady keeps producing decent quantities of ammo.

[Stinky Coyote]

I base it on my personal experience at matches. These are gas gun matches that go out to 900 or so yards. Everyone I see adopting a new small frame AR cartridge is going 6ARC. Within this group, Grendel is generally considered inferior to 6ARC. With cheap ammo readily available, Grendel was, at least to me, a no brainer. With that ammo pretty well gone, 6.8 SPC is arguably better for short range hunting, while 6ARC is better for longer range target shooting. I think Grendel is a great cartridge, but the fact remains that a big edge it had over competitors is gone. Just look at this forum. There's not exactly a flood of new members pouring in. Beyond that, Federal seems to have stopped producing ammo for Grendel. Prvi seems to be going away too. Hornady, Barnes, Nosler, and AA seem to be the only companies currently making new supplies. Of those, Hornady is the only major player. Again, it's a great cartridge, but its usage seems to be shrinking, not growing, at least to me. Hopefully, Hornady keeps producing decent quantities of ammo.

Anyone that can do math can quickly see the 6.8 is a deer only set up that falls flat on it's face quickly. I ran the 6.8 before I could get the Grendel, it was a brief run, felt it was about wrapped up by just over 200 yards and with it's SD was really only a deer size game contender. The Grendel has elk/moose qualifying SD bullets in the 123's that can hold similar hit probability (due to higher bc) to near double the range of the 6.8. They aren't even in the same league in terms of hunting potential for game on this continent. Blew through a quartering whitetail at 420 that dropped with a 16" Grendel, I thought it was pretty miraculous to kill a doe at 220 with my 6.8 110's and it did a runner so was a long walk to get relief. So the 6.8 is arguably an adequate 250 yard deer round but the Grendel adds 150 yards to that easily and goes beyond deer size game. They only fit in the same magazine/action length as their only similarity.

The 6.5x55 survived, because it has the right numbers, the 6.5 Grendel is a couple decades in now...because it has the right numbers. Will it be a rager like the Creedmoor? No. Will the ARC be a rager yup, the world has been dying for a short fat factory 6 like a ppc/br/dasher, so surprised it took that long. And if you can put 2 and 2 together you'll see the ARC (which is a 6 Grendel) will drag the 6.5 Grendel along nicely as there are more target guys than hunters but the hunters will do what they usually do between 6 and 6.5 choices....they will gravitate towards the 6.5 for hunting. Any x39 case based well supported factory round will likely be around a long long time, well played Grendel creators and Hornady for recognizing the long term potential with that case and applying 21st century bullets/design to it.

And yup, Hornady makes great ammo, likely part of the reason others don't sell as much and opting out. That's not gonna slow down and the ARC will ensure that case and ammo will carry on for a long time also. They will support the 6.5 and 6 Creedmoor no differently, both will remain big successes throughout this century.

How long has the 6.8 been out? Hows it done in that time compared to the Grendel? Lol...The Grendel withstood the flash in the pan phenomenon because it has all the right numbers. A bolt action only Canadian learned about it in about 2005, have wanted one since, not even considering a gas gun. That should tell you that any ballistics nerd will find the good stuff quickly and easily. It should also tell you likelihood of it being a survivor also.

Edit; And your experience on the matches. 6 Arc offers a 150-170 yard distance advantage for similar impact speeds (103/108 gr hornady loads vs the 123 6.5)...and that's while you'll see target guys move to the 6 but in hunting world that extra distance is already beyond where 99% of game is taken so it's only beneficial to the target guys or the very few elrh hunting guys. 0-500 hunting the Grendel has no fat, no weakness, the Arc gives up barrel life and being under 120 gr bullet weight as 2 disadvantages to the Grendel. Grendel is most balanced and well rounded on more checkboxes one may choose in a cartridge.

[LRRPF52]

I base it on my personal experience at matches. These are gas gun matches that go out to 900 or so yards. Everyone I see adopting a new small frame AR cartridge is going 6ARC. Within this group, Grendel is generally considered inferior to 6ARC. With cheap ammo readily available, Grendel was, at least to me, a no brainer. With that ammo pretty well gone, 6.8 SPC is arguably better for short range hunting, while 6ARC is better for longer range target shooting. I think Grendel is a great cartridge, but the fact remains that a big edge it had over competitors is gone. Just look at this forum. There's not exactly a flood of new members pouring in. Beyond that, Federal seems to have stopped producing ammo for Grendel. Prvi seems to be going away too. Hornady, Barnes, Nosler, and AA seem to be the only companies currently making new supplies. Of those, Hornady is the only major player. Again, it's a great cartridge, but its usage seems to be shrinking, not growing, at least to me. Hopefully, Hornady keeps producing decent quantities of ammo.

[JASmith]

[Bonas]

6.5 Grendel was designed specifically as an AR-15 variant cartridge. https://www.alexanderarms.com/history/

OP, in summary, says Grendel has its own advantages separate and apart from AR-15s mostly because of how it reloads.

With cheap steel case, Grendel, in my opinion, was the no-brainer choice for AR variants. With that gone, other choices come into play for AR variants.

For short-action bolt guns, Grendel is even more of a niche cartridge. Reloading-wise, Grendel presents some good advantages, as OP points out. Shooting-wise, other cartridges out perform it, with 6.5 Creedmoor leading that pack.

Grendel's low recoil comes from it shooting (relatively) light bullets at low speeds. That necessarily creates its own ballistic issues.

To me, where Grendel really shines is as a short-range hunting cartridge for compact, i.e. short-barreled, suppressed rifles.

[Stinky Coyote]

For short-action bolt guns, Grendel is even more of a niche cartridge. Reloading-wise, Grendel presents some good advantages, as OP points out. Shooting-wise, other cartridges out perform it, with 6.5 Creedmoor leading that pack.

Grendel's low recoil comes from it shooting (relatively) light bullets at low speeds. That necessarily creates its own ballistic issues.

To me, where Grendel really shines is as a short-range hunting cartridge for compact, i.e. short-barreled, suppressed rifles.

Other cartridges outperform it in what? Barrel life, recoil energy and muzzle blast (more shooters will shoot well and you watch more in scope)? There's 3-4 areas the Grendel beats the Creedmoor while still being more than enough for most 0-400 yard big game hunting where 99.5% of game is killed, Creedmoor almost overkill, 98% under 300 yards. More affordable to shoot, so the unlimited barrel life coupled with being most affordable to shoot and for most shooters possible it's far better matched than Creedmoor. Still bangs steel a long ways out to go along with all that extra shooting you can do. The Grendel shines a lot of places when realistic shooting checkboxes are all on the page, more so than almost any other comer. So the Creedmoor can kill game in the further, in the elrh arena where very few things are killed by very few people (sounds niche to me) and it can compete further like PRS (also niche).

And all AR length cartridge bolt action rifles are niche.

Don't get me wrong, I recommend 6.5 CM to most new people getting their first all round rifle. It may be the most versatile period. But for those who don't care to bang big game to 600 or compete at 1000...the Grendel is most versatile.

[JASmith]

Stinky has it right on!

The Grendel in a good bolt gun with adjustable stock (or AR for that matter) is suitable for youth shooters and with incremental adjustments will keep the fit as he or she grows to full size and on to being very mature.

One can say the Grendel is a "9 to 90" cartridge!