Issue with new grendel

[Irbuff]

[bj139]

Considering the hardness of nitride:

http://www.metlabheattreat.com/nitriding.html

One of the members here polished the inside of his chamber with fine abrasive to smooth it.
It was a recent post.

[rabiddawg]

Come on man! The barrel maker has to have a name!

[VASCAR2]

http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?14815-How-s-the-quality-of-BROWNELLS-6-5-bolt-carrier

[Irbuff]

Awesome I will measure the bolt and firing pin tomorrow and see where they are at. The barrel maker is “radical barrels” they make barrels for other companies and generally don’t sell to the public.... but the owner happens to be a family friend. It’s got pretty accurate with the black. I’m hoping it’s jusy shotty ammo as I’ve had 0 issues with the black besides the first round. Again thanks for all the info guys!

[imaguy3]

Got the bullet out of the barrel and contacted the company that made the barrel. They told me that because of the nitride the first round can sometimes get stuck and that I needed to clean the barrel with a wire brush.

That's a load of s***.

There's no way a barrel with that much obstruction should pass qc... not to mention, ALL the nitride barrels out there and this is the first I've ever heard of a treatment coating causing a bullet to literally get stuck in the barrel.

[bj139]

Is it a Radical Firearms barrel? I bought one used and was not impressed when I first shot it.
A little time went by and I cleaned it real good and got some groups I considered very good.
I posted about it on this forum a few weeks ago.
I also ran across a thread on another forum were a barrel maker recommended a wire brush in a drill, a few cleaning patches and Isso bore cleaner to clean up residue from the nitriding process.

[Irbuff]

It is not radical Firearms. All he makes is barrels. The rifle has been 100% except for the first shot with the black. And that’s exactly what he told me to do with the wire brush and drill.

[Kswhitetails]

Imaguy, I can completely understand your sentiment. Until my most recent work on my 12.7, I would have agreed with you. However, I've done a little hands on learning in this regard, and some research into the QPQ nitriding processes.

It's possible for debris that collects inside the chamber during the dipping process to foul the surfaces with grit. Some salt particulate or other foreign matter in the tank. I believe that's what started the polish step between the two quench sessions (quench-polish-quench). Dipping barrels inside a tank of molten salts has the potential to cause a few of those pieces of particulate to "embed" into the surface, which a quick polish or spin brushing would alleviate. I don't know why it's not QPQP? I can see this being especially true with the throat, where clearances are measured in the third and fourth decimal. If there was a larger particle of some foreign matter stuck say on a land or groove at the right point, I can see there being enough friction to capture the bullet and pull it from the case. Common? No absolutely not. Usually this would be cleaned in a non coated or treated barrel by swabbing it initially. In Nitride coatings though, the surface is so hard that it's likely that the particle wouldn't be removed even with a quick brushing.

If the subsequent rounds showed no tendency to pull or change bullet seating this is my theory.

[imaguy3]

Imaguy, I can completely understand your sentiment. Until my most recent work on my 12.7, I would have agreed with you. However, I've done a little hands on learning in this regard, and some research into the QPQ nitriding processes.

It's possible for debris that collects inside the chamber during the dipping process to foul the surfaces with grit. Some salt particulate or other foreign matter in the tank. I believe that's what started the polish step between the two quench sessions (quench-polish-quench). Dipping barrels inside a tank of molten salts has the potential to cause a few of those pieces of particulate to "embed" into the surface, which a quick polish or spin brushing would alleviate. I don't know why it's not QPQP? I can see this being especially true with the throat, where clearances are measured in the third and fourth decimal. If there was a larger particle of some foreign matter stuck say on a land or groove at the right point, I can see there being enough friction to capture the bullet and pull it from the case. Common? No absolutely not. Usually this would be cleaned in a non coated or treated barrel by swabbing it initially. In Nitride coatings though, the surface is so hard that it's likely that the particle wouldn't be removed even with a quick brushing.

If the subsequent rounds showed no tendency to pull or change bullet seating this is my theory.

I read it at first as though he fired the round and the bullet got stuck in the barrel while the case was stuck in the chamber...

If it got stuck while loading, then I wonder how well it's chambered. The only time I've ever seen a barrel pull a bullet out of a case is when they're handloads that are loaded long and jammed into the lands..

[Irbuff]

I read it at first as though he fired the round and the bullet got stuck in the barrel while the case was stuck in the chamber...

If it got stuck while loading, then I wonder how well it's chambered. The only time I've ever seen a barrel pull a bullet out of a case is when they're handloads that are loaded long and jammed into the lands..

This is correct. I fired the round and didn’t see my 3rd hole. I was thinking wow I know I’m no marksman but how did I miss my entire target. Went to pull the trigger again and couldn’t. It would move a little but not fully. Went to pull the charging handle and it wouldn’t pull. Got out of position and applied more pressure and got it to pull back and it dropped the case but the bullet was still in the barrel. The case had a light primer strike. I have a picture but can’t post on here ugh

[Irbuff]

Just got off the phone with hornady and they are having me send the American gunner back to get checked. He thought maybe it was a short throat issue. How do I measure that? I asked him if that was the issue why didnt I have any issues with the black? Also, after getting home from work I simply tried to chamber 2 more rounds of the American gunner and it’s very hard to eject. I tried 2 rounds of black and have no issues. So how do I tell if it’s a short throat?

[bj139]

You can tell a lot by removing the upper from the lower and just use thumb pressure to close the bolt.
Look to see if the bolt rotates fully into battery. If it does not it is some problem like bullet against lands, case mouth against neck-throat step, too small chamber or maybe even hardened nitriding residue. If the case gets stuck, drop a cleaning rod through the muzzle or whack the charging handle with a piece of wood.

[BCHunter]

If you have a stoiny point coal gauge with bullet compator, you could measure the coal of the black vs AG. Different bullet profiles would explain why one gets stuck and the other doesn't.

This tool is used to measure maximum seating length for a given bullet in a barrel. Should be 40-60.00 for the coal gauge, 6.5grendel modified case and set of bullet compactores.

[Irbuff]

I’ll be honest I have a very limited set of tools. Pretty much have a blue point 100 piece set and a few misc tools that I’ve acquired.

Bj are you talking with or without a round in the chamber? Without it seems to go in and pull out just fine. I didn’t try with a round in the chamber.