Anyone here use Wilson barrels

[SCJim]

I think I found the issue. Looks like the bag on the rest settled as I shot and the fore end stop on the rest was touching the barrel. Back to the range Thursday or Friday with the 8208 and the Barnes MB's. This time I will use a F class bipod

[kmon]

That could be the problem
Look forward to the next range report. Wilson generally makes good quality stuff. Mr Wilson posted recently they have added new equipment and up to about 2500 barrels per month manufacturing capacity. If I recall correctly.

[Dt219]

Keep us updated sir

[SCJim]

well went back to the range yesterday and am beginning to think the rifler really does not care for 8028 XBR. Average group size was 1.7 MOA, average ES was 45 FPS. Smallest group was 1.5 inches. Velocities are also running pretty low. Shotmarker at 100 gave me 2210 FPS @ 27.0 gns. Working backwards I am estimating 2375 at muzzle. This is not my first rodeo though, I have broke in and developed loads for at least 10 bolt guns, only gave up on one barrel as just a plain bad shooter. I just put a Shilen .308 on that shot like crap until I went to 4064 and 168 SML's. Then the 1.5 MOA rifle started putting five in .3 or .4 inches I have had a couple that did not find their groove until I tried 4 or 5 powder/bullet combination

I am going to switch to 2520 and or TAC. Maybe retire the brass I have been using, the case mouths are getting pretty beat up. Also going to move to CCI 450's when I switch powders. I am considering installing the adjustable gas key I have on the shelf, I have waiting on finding the final load first. Anyway it's time to back up and try a different route

[myrifle]

Mine was delivered yesterday. Only thing the borescope revealed was a light coating of some protectant, there is no doubt in my mind the had polishing occurred. I have seen $700 bolt barrels that were rougher. I put it in a low end Aero receiver, it was a very tight fit so I left it unbedded, with a Aero BCG , Seekins handguard, Midway std gas block. Did the break in today and was extremely impressed. I used a bunch of old steel cased Wolf for the break in. Shot 1 cleaned for first 5 rounds, then shot 3 rounds and cleaned two times, then moved up to 5 round groups and copper was minimal when cleaned after the first. I have broke in Criterion, Shilen and Kreiger barrels on bolt rifles that gave me more problems with copper and carbon. The last 5 round group was about 1 MOA using trash ammo. next week I will do some serious load development. I would bet a 6 pack of adult beverage I can get sub MOA at 850 yds with some 8208 and decent bullets in some handloads.

It better have been min copper to remove since you was fireing a copper washed steel jacket bullet lol.

[SCJim]

It better have been min copper to remove since you was fireing a copper washed steel jacket bullet lol.

The first ten rounds of Wolf down the barrel did leave some blue streaks after using the Pro Shot copper cleaner patches. By the 15th round shot I saw no more blue. Last two range sessions were using Nosler CC 123's and Barnes MB 120's. Barrel Cleanup has been pretty easy as far as carbon and copper has been almost non existent. I finish with a bore scope inspection. I wish finding the right load was as easy as the barrel cleaning has been. Seriously thinking about calling Wilson to see if they will send me a print of the reamer used so I can determine the freebore

[Fess]

SCJim, the reamer print may not be terribly useful. You will be better off measuring with the bullets you will be using in your own barrel.
The reason for that is that the precise spot where the bullet touches the lands is largely affected by reamer wear. The spot where the lands begin to emerge is somewhere along the the 0.5 or 1.5 degree taper of the throat where a tiny bit of reamer wear (diameter change) moves the position back and forth quite a lot. Also, the exact spot on the BULLET where its curved ogive surface meets the land, which is itself at a shallow angle, depends on the ogive of that particular bullet. Secant ogives tend to be more sensitive than tangent ogives due to the geometry at the point where the shank ends and the ogive begins. That is partly why the "old faithful" bullet for the 6.5 Grendel is the 120 grain Matchking, since it tangent ogive makes it easier to tune.

[SCJim]

Actually I would be pretty happy to just have an idea where to start. I don't have a case for my Hornady so I did a quick check the old fashioned way with a sharpie and repeated chambering. Interestingly enough it appears that the chamber is throated short and the bullet was only about .005 off when seated at 2.20 as per Barnes specs. I will come back to seating depth later, next week I will try Acc 2520 and TAC to see if I can get better ES and SD then work on seating adjustments. Also I have a new Hornady A65G case in the mail, should be here in a week.

In the past with bolt rifles I have found that Barnes MB's, Sierra SMK's and Nosler CC's all pretty much like a "jump" of around .025 - .035. There are always exceptions of course such my .223 liking the 80 gn SMK jammed hard while the 80.5 Berger in the same rifle needs .075 jump. Still the first order of business is the get the ES below 20 and SD's in the single digits

[Dt219]

Good for me to read. Keep updating with the progress as you move along

[SCJim]

updates - Wilson gave me a reply on the reamer used, it's a standard SAAMI chamber. No proprietary freebore. I t has been my experience that Sierra MK's, Barnes MB's, and Nosler CC's generally prefer about a .025 to .050 "jump". After doing some measurements and using the Sharpie method of determining "touch" I seated 50 bullets at 2.228, took them to the range with a portable press and did a seating test. I found they grouped best@ 2.188 or about .040 from touching the lands. Last 5 bullets were then seated at 2.188 and fired with my Magnetospeed chrono. Speed was 2263 FPS with a SD of 28 and ES of 61. A bit disappointing for long range purposes.

best group was .690 but I had a few others that hovered around 1 inch. I do believe the barrel might be just starting to settle in but a change in powder or primer or both may get the ES/SD down a bit. More testing is planned, a couple of other powders followed by testing 140 gn Bullets unless I can find a good supply of 120 grain Nosler, Sierra or Barnes 120's



seating.jpg

[Dt219]

Of those 3 the Barnes will be easier to find. They are the ones I see popping up here and there

[SCJim]

Success with TAC and 120 gn bullets

after three other powders with only mediocre results I tried TAC. Using CCI 450 primers, Starline cases on their 5th firing, Barnes 120 Match Burner bullets seated at 2.20 COL yesterday I gave it another try and had the best groups I ever had with a AR. Wind was 5 - 10 mph gusts full value from left to right. Normally I try and load develop on calm days and practice on windy ones. However since this was more about velocity than group sizes and it looks like that was the calmest day I will have for two weeks I went ahead and shot. With 27 grains I got 2300 FPS average at 12 feet from the muzzle. I will attach three pics from the Shotmarker target which I imported into the OnTarget software. For reference the grid squares are 1 inch. The first is 26.8 grains, the second is 27.0, the third is a composite overlay of the two targets. The group height is only .108 on the six shots. If this was going to be shot at 100 - 600 yards I would stop right here but at 800 + the velocity is iffy for electronic targets after 600 yards so next session I will be testing 27.9 - 28.9 to see if I can find a node with about 50 to 100 more FPS. I will update once I do the next test and try and do some 600 - 800 yard groups


projject26.8.jpg
project 27.0.jpg
26.8 to 27 composite.jpg

[tdbru]

SCJim,
not to throw more variables into the ring, so to speak, but consider H4895. It has a 0.2 fps/F temp co. easy to ignite. I like it for 120-130 gr. class in the 6.5 Gendel. YMMV of course.
thanks for the reports. best of luck.
-tdbru

[SDW]

I plan to start out with TAC, once I complete my 22" WC upper. It works very well with my 20" BA DMR barrel at any rate. It'll be my starting point with the WC anyway. TAC and possibly AA2520, which for me produced nearly identical results in my BA barrel, using Hornady 123 Gr ELDs.

[SDW]

The first is 26.8 grains, the second is 27.0, the third is a composite overlay of the two targets. The group height is only .108 on the six shots. If this was going to be shot at 100 - 600 yards I would stop right here but at 800 + the velocity is iffy for electronic targets after 600 yards so next session I will be testing 27.9 - 28.9 to see if I can find a node with about 50 to 100 more FPS. I will update once I do the next test and try and do some 600 - 800 yard groups

To add to what I was saying, my loads (123gr ELD-Ms over TAC) in the target below begin where your first test topped out. At my max load here, 28.2gr, had an average-V of 2467, SD of 10.2 (through my 20" BA barrel). I figure you should be able to add 100+ FPS to your velocities pretty easily. Just and assumption. You are using different bullets and I don't know how much that affects velocity here. Another variable I just thought of is, we're using different chronographs. So that's another unknown. My Caldwell seems to have good and bad days for some reason.

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