New Marine Corps weapon to replace SAW

[JASmith]

All interesting points.

The observation that "less death is required" is an angle I hadn't considered.

With a son currently deployed with a reserve civil affairs unit, however, I have to wonder how the transition from robotic warfare to making nice faces and kumbaya would happen.

After all, isn't the objective "winning their hearts and minds?"

[LRRPF52]

Hearts and minds is just a cover phrase that isn't even understood by most of the Command and Staff clowns who utter it. It especially is a joke in Afghanistan, where you have a tribal-based culture that is dictated by the geography. The concept of ever unifying "Afghans" under one political entity is one of the most far-fetched and ridiculous ideas I have ever heard. We'd be more likely to unify Israel with the Palestinians.

The tribes that are tucked into every draw and valley in the Hindu-Kush enjoy shooting at each other, and have centuries-old disputes to settle, which they continue to do during foreign invasion, to include the Anglo-Afghan Wars, the Soviet occupation, and now this ISAF cluster football bat monkey-hump. The tribes within the major tribal regions fight each other like Cartwrights and McCoys. Even if they were miraculously unified by some sweep of the utopian overlord wand, try getting them to see eye-to-eye with the Northern Takijs, or the Hazara, Uzbeks, Turkmens, Balochs, and Ughirs.

Ain't gonna happen no matter how many clinics, dams, schools, roads, hydro-electric stations, and infrastructure we build for them. The best thing to do would bring in 500,000 Indian males to secure the place, as we mine the area for the newly-found mineral resources there, while providing a perfect strategic squeeze maneuver for India on Pakistan, with the Taliban and other Islamic stooges caught in the middle.

As that happens, India could take over SouthEastern Pakistan, with a route to the Ocean. Game over for Pakistan, and Afghanistan could now enjoy access to global trade via shipping for all the metals we can extract from the place, giving the opium industry a run for its money. That would be a win-win-win situation in my book, and would be the only remote possibility of building enough infrastructure to pull Afghanistan out of the stone age.

[JASmith]

It looks like you really, really want the Indians and Pakistanis to rumble!!!

It also seems like you also take issue with some of the points of view illustrated in George Friedman's The Next Decade in particular and The Next 100 Years" in general...

[stanc]

Right now, they're not too afraid of engaging dismounts, and consider it fun. With robotic creatures piloted by evil infidels that prefer to hunt at night, with no terrain restrictions, they would start to fear.

I'd rather our guys do it in air-conditioned mech bot cockpits, than running around playing silly games with goat rapers in the hills...

What you're overlooking is that war is a game.

You sound like a friend of mine, who advocates replacing manned combat aircraft with UAVs. What about all the guys who really want to be warriors?

[LRRPF52]

I still haven't read his book. India has motive, resources, and opportunity to get involved in Afghanistan, and they have shown interest in doing so because of the mineral finds there. They are way over-populated with males of military age, with absolutely zero prospects of marriage, since we're looking at 54%/46% disparity with a population of 1.21 billion. Pakistan (Western India stolen by Islamic crusades) has been not only a thorn in the side of India, but the planet, and they are the real source of our troubles in Afghanistan. I would love to see them sweat with India's vastly superior military breathing down their necks on both fronts.

The fact that Pakistan became an Islamic foothold in historical India was one of the greatest tragedies in world events. We're reaping the consequences of that foreign religious crusade with the dynamics of the region today.

[LRRPF52]

What you're overlooking is that war is a game.

You sound like a friend of mine, who advocates replacing manned combat aircraft with UAVs. What about all the guys who really want to be warriors?

No, I am making the point that war IS a deadly game. I just feel that warriors should have better tools to do it with. Since I want ground-mobility robots to be piloted, I'm having a hard time seeing how I sound like an advocate for UAV's to replace combat aircraft. The manned robot concept gives warriors a truly over-matched capability that would be awesome to weild as a deterrent, with periodic displays for doubters.

[LRRPF52]

Imagine this with integrated indirect fire, and rotary cannon weapons. Thermobaric warhead missiles and a long-range flame-thrower would be appropriate as well.

http://tektonten.blogspot.com/2010/04/mechwarrior-4-vulture-papercraft.html

The biggest issue I see is that no self-respecting camouflaged welfare warrior in a command position will allow anyone to sign these things out of the....robopool. They will, however, have zero problems with making sure soldiers are tasked with doing maintenance and command inspection preparations in the robopool.

With no streets to limit maneuver like with tanks, imagine if a Fire Team went rogue.

"Sarge. We disconnected the the primary and hidden command override links in our robosteeds, and the Ammunition Supply Point doesn't know how to detect our hack of their guard bots. Project mahem is ready for kick-off! We've even isntalled the driver's kegs with dual channel camelbak valves, right next to the 25 mike-mike drum bulkhead, loaded with plenty of HEDP and API from last month's Platoon Combined Live-Fire Exercise, and we got the code from the ANCD for the Commander's authority to engage active camouflage."

[stanc]

Apparently I misunderstood.

When you talked about a robot, I thought you meant something like the man-size "T-800 Terminator," except remotely-operated by a soldier safely seated in an air-conditioned office far from the fighting.

I see you actually are discussing a much larger, manned armored combat vehicle that walks on legs.



ETA: I doubt the Afghans will fear much such legged vehicles. RPGs and IEDs, ya know.

[LRRPF52]

I'm thinking about some pretty revolutionary "leaps" in maneuverability. Combine them with night, and RPG's pose no real threat. IED's rely on known routes, which is the whole point of this type of technology that will render enemy ambushes worthless, and put them totally on the defense.

You've seen the videos of guys running around with exo-skeleton legs on, right. Now imagine that concept enlarged to facilitate serious weapons platforms. I mean, the soldiers were running up and down steep rocky mountain tops like it was fun, with minimal effort. With advances in armor, lightweight, high-strength materials, and anthropomorphic electronically controlled appendages, the pieces are there. Place an armored tub on it for the warrior, throw in an A/C system, integrated commo suite, LRF targeting with polar-plot JSTARS-type data link, topped off with Mini-gun, munitions launcher, and drum magazines....I see lots of fear.

[stanc]

I'm thinking about some pretty revolutionary "leaps" in maneuverability. Combine them with night, and RPG's pose no real threat. IED's rely on known routes, which is the whole point of this type of technology that will render enemy ambushes worthless, and put them totally on the defense.

Going into and through towns and villages, I think these "individual combat vehicles" will still be channeled into known routes (streets and alleys), and thereby vulnerable to IEDs.

You've seen the videos of guys running around with exo-skeleton legs on, right.

No. The only video I recall seeing previously was the one below, in which the exoskeleton was tethered.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hkCcoenLW4

After reading your comment, I checked youtube and found what appears to be the video you noted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1CeBOWm67A

ETA: I'd love to give the HULC a "test drive" to see for myself how well it works.

Now imagine that concept enlarged to facilitate serious weapons platforms. With advances in armor, lightweight, high-strength materials, and anthropomorphic electronically controlled appendages, the pieces are there. Place an armored tub on it for the warrior, throw in an A/C system, integrated commo suite, LRF targeting with polar-plot JSTARS-type data link, topped off with Mini-gun, munitions launcher, and drum magazines....I see lots of fear.

I fear you're a tad optimistic. But even if you're right about Afghan insurgent reaction, it looks to me like a viable, bipedal, individual combat vehicle is a very long way in the future.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPx-bCwHGCc

[Variable]

Weyland-Yutani and Blue Sun corporate sponsorships should speed up the process...

[txgunner00]

I would have loved to have one of those HULCs on the 25 mile humps we had to do.


LMAO at that landwalker video. A song that my daughters listen to comes to mind... "every day I'm shufflin'". The reaction of the crowd is classic Japanese. Ooooooo!

[LRRPF52]

I see smart rocket launchers, an armored cockpit, and articulating legs ready to handle crazy terrain. There are developments in armor right now that could make these things so light, it's ridiculous.

[txgunner00]

It would be great while it lasted, but for every advancement in armor there is another to defeat it. It will be like the knights in plate armor then along came steel tipped arrows. I think we should all go back to slugging it out bare fisted in open fields.

[bwaites]

It would be great while it lasted, but for every advancement in armor there is another to defeat it. It will be like the knights in plate armor then along came steel tipped arrows. I think we should all go back to slugging it out bare fisted in open fields.

Naw, we breed to fast! Can't kill enough of us fast enough to not overwhelm the resource pool with bare fists!