U.S. Army explores continuing carbine upgrades
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They want an M4A1 "plus" (M4A1+)? Has Obamunism carried down to the level of instilling socialist "newspeak" into the military? That'd be double plus ungood!LOL
Sounds like they're looking for a free-float rail, a better trigger, and some bling. If I was Colt I'd toss a 6940 with a newly redesigned single stage Geissele select fire trigger assembly and maybe a Blackout or Surefire style muzzle device on it?Life member NRA, SAF, GOA, WVSRPA (and VFW). Also member WVCDL. Join NOW!!!!!
We either hang together on this, or we'll certainly HANG separately.....
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Originally posted by Trooper View PostThe U.S. Army is exploring a new round of upgrades to its ubiquitous M4/M4A1 series carbine
I thought that there was no money for anything
And if they should decide to buy something, they always manage to find the money...
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Yeah get the blackout MD and they can eliminate flash better but then get a new issue the ping that it makes. Besides it's just talk of getting better weapons to our troops.12.5" SBR Grendel - Need Barrel
Surge - Rugged Suppressor
Been a fan of the Grendel from the very beginning and haven't second guessed that choice one time.
Aim small, miss small!
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Originally posted by am4966 View PostYeah get the blackout MD and they can eliminate flash better but then get a new issue the ping that it makes. Besides it's just talk of getting better weapons to our troops.
I laughed back when they first came out and people griped about the tuning fork ring. "It will give your position away"... Ahem, if you fire a round, it's a bit louder than the ping.
Anywhoo, it's just because the prongs are equidistant. If you change their length relative to each other it cancels out the harmonic and they don't ring. Silencerco did it with their Saker mount.Life member NRA, SAF, GOA, WVSRPA (and VFW). Also member WVCDL. Join NOW!!!!!
We either hang together on this, or we'll certainly HANG separately.....
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From an adjacent, slightly older thread where the Marine Corps is doing very similar things.
In regards to the new muzzle device, bwaites had the best solution and I won't attempt to steal his thunder so here's what he said.
Originally posted by bwaites View PostIt would interesting to do a comparison of 16" rifle barrels and see at what point the extra mass becomes a liability. With 14.5 or 16 inch barrels, I bet 8-12 ounces buys a lot more stiffness and heat sink capability. Comps get better an better, but I think the real winner would be a lightweight 4-6" suppressor that would be good for 2-3000 rounds and then disposable. (Think about how that technology would bring the price of suppressors down!)
There is plenty of aftermarket stuff that would make the rifle easier to shoot and would be really cost effective at lengthening he rifle life."Those who sacrifice liberty for security, deserve neither." Benjamin Franklin
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They are basically playing catch up to SOPMOD Block II, which is where the current M4 configuration came from with the SOPMOD Block I, without the optics and suppressor units that were initially made available to SOCOM.
SOPMOD Block II now has the addition of Geissele SSF triggers, which just won the SOCOM contract after over a year of trials.
Here is the SOPMOD Block II upgrade sheet:
NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO
CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor
6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:
www.AR15buildbox.com
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Originally posted by stanc View Post"Exploring" available technology doesn't necessarily mean anything will actually be bought.
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We were not even able to complete the MWOs (Modification Work Orders) to the M4s last year..... As of today, still have thousands due updates from 2015 (ambi levers, new triggers, and hand guard/ rails). Not too mention all the money being spent to test the new modular pistol. I just shipped out over 300 M9s leaving the Army MP School worn out and broke to be spending more money than a new one would cost for replacements.― George Orwell
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We are not going to see a new rifle until we have a new cartridge. Since the M1 Garand every new rifle has been because we had a new cartridge (M14 -- 7.62x51, M16/M4 -- 5.56x45).
The M4/M4A1/M16 has dominated. Not enough new technology to move away from the current rifle. The weak spot is the cartridge, not the rifle.
The 6.5 Grendel (6.5x39) might be able to do that. I doubt that we will go to another version of the 6.5mm (like 6.5x45, 6.5x51 gives us the same weakness of the 7.62x51). The advantage of the 6.5x39 is that it will fit in the mag well of the M4 thus just a barrel and bolt swap will upgrade the current pool of weapons, giving time to select a new rifle. I would favor something like the Tavor X95 myself.
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Originally posted by n9nwo View PostWe are not going to see a new rifle until we have a new cartridge. Since the M1 Garand every new rifle has been because we had a new cartridge (M14 -- 7.62x51, M16/M4 -- 5.56x45).
The M4/M4A1/M16 has dominated. Not enough new technology to move away from the current rifle. The weak spot is the cartridge, not the rifle.
The 6.5 Grendel (6.5x39) might be able to do that. I doubt that we will go to another version of the 6.5mm (like 6.5x45, 6.5x51 gives us the same weakness of the 7.62x51). The advantage of the 6.5x39 is that it will fit in the mag well of the M4 thus just a barrel and bolt swap will upgrade the current pool of weapons, giving time to select a new rifle. I would favor something like the Tavor X95 myself.
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Originally posted by Lightning8 View PostI do not care how you "up gun" a SAW it will not replace a M240 and the 7.62x51.
7.62 NATO is the problem with our system, not 5.56, especially with M855A1 in the system now. The new M80A1 7.62 NATO has an even lower BC than the M80 7.62 FMJBT projectile.NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO
CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor
6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:
www.AR15buildbox.com
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Originally posted by LRRPF52 View Post6.5mm LSAT exceeds the capabilities of the M240 and PKM, at half the weight or less, with constant recoil and the ability to carry much more ammo in smaller volume.
However, the capability of a 6.5 Grendel M249 SAW to replace the 7.62mm M240 is much less certain.
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