Extremely Limited - Demo run, Lilja 6mm ARC

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  • rebby
    Warrior
    • Mar 2017
    • 302

    Extremely Limited - Demo run, Lilja 6mm ARC

    These barrels are being offered in 2 profiles/lengths; AR24/23" & AR740/20"*. All lengths are based on the classic Grendel offerings (please follow the link for profile details). Barrels will be threaded 5/8-24. There will not be an option for re-profiling and/or fluting of the barrel directly from Lilja (I can help with recommendations to have this done after the fact if desired).

    Any/all machine work is performed in-house by Lilja (including chambering, extension install, threading, etc). Barrels are chambered using SAMMI specs. These barrels are threaded for and furnished with a pinned barrel extension installed with proper headspace. The gas port hole is drilled and these are finished off with an 11' target crown. A narrow flat on the bottom side of the gas port section is milled for set screws used with some types of gas blocks. This prevents marring of the diameter by the set screws and helps align the gas block with the gas port hole. All barrels use an M4 style barrel extension and are ready to drop in to your selected upper. As with all Lilja barrels, these have 3-groove rifling and a 1-7" twist*. All barrels will utilize a rifle length gas system (12"). Barrel markings will be in front of the gas block. Markings will read, "Lilja 6ARC 1-7 Six Sigma" ("Lilja" will be in their customary script font).

    Finish from Lilja is polished stainless steel, finish ground to 320 grit. Optionally, I can Cerakote these prior to final delivery for an additional $TBD ($95?) in a number of colors (black, desert, FDE, tactical grey, etc). Cerakote will add a few weeks to delivery time.

    I'll also be offering options for various accessories at a reduced cost as well to help people complete their builds (uppers, lower components, muzzle devices, optics, etc). I can get essentially anything you could want, some discounts are better than others (due to MAP restrictions we may need to "package" accessories). A complete, ready to go, upper built to your exact specifications is also an option (lowers are also available). The end goal here is to supply you with exactly what you need, nothing more, nothing less. It's time to put my 07 FFL and associated discounts to work for the horde.

    The lead time on these will vary due to the fallout from C19. Production time is expected to run up to 12 weeks (hopefully faster). We will be running these with the 12.5"/16" Grendels that are in production. These will be LIMITED in quantity. The initial thought is to run ~15 in total so don't hesitate. If you want one, it's best to get in sooner rather than later. Good things come to those who wait and this is certainly another example where patience will pay off.

    Cost is $495 per barrel regardless of profile/length. Shipping is included.

    I can add a bolt (0.136") to your barrel as well, this time around the options include;
    • Headspaced Maxim Bolt (from Lilja) - $85
    • Toolcraft BCG Nitride, Auto Carrier, Headspaced Maxim Bolt (from Lilja) - $140
    • Toolcraft BCG Nitride, Auto Carrier, Toolcraft Bolt (checked for headspace) - $120

    As noted above, complete custom uppers are an option as well. The sky is the limit on complete uppers (or complete guns), so please contact me and we'll work out the details.

    At this moment these are being offered in a "pre-sale" and we expect a pretty good response. To guarantee your barrel, payment is due in full. Any barrels remaining after the pre-sale will be sold according to MAP policies. Refunds will be considered on a case by case basis. I can accept payment in a number of ways however, due to the reduced pricing being offered (especially considering increases in shipping costs), any applicable fees need to be paid by the buyer. I will work with potential buyers on payment options for barrel and/or barrel+accessory combos. Please contact me via IM to lock in the specifics of your order and arrange for payment.

    All updates on the status of this project will be reflected in this thread as they are available. I'll be sure to add a new post as well as update this one (if possible). I've done my best to include all pertinent information here but please let me know if you have any questions or concerns.

    We added options for 16" and 12.5" barrels! These barrels are configured exactly like our 16" and 12.5" Grendel barrels. These are priced the same as the Grendel options as well, $395.

    Current quantities are as follows (I will keep this updated as barrels sell);
    • Remaining 24: 2
    • Remaining 740: 0
    • Remaining 16: 5
    • Remaining 12.5: 7


    * - I don't anticipate an issue but that I should disclose a family medical situation that I'm going through. My son had his 11th cardiac catherization and 9th open heart surgery last fall. Surgery was a phenomenal success however there were multiple complications including renal failure, medivac from Stanford University to Mayo Clinic, PRES accompanied with a code event and reintubation, hyperkalemia, emergency surgery, Coronavirus (the other one), influenza B, and a number of other events. Blake was in and out of ICU from late October to early/mid February. At the moment Blake is doing well but a kidney transplant will be required, hopefully sometime yet this year (we're researching facilities/options). More information can be found on Blake's CaringBridge.

    * - Yes, you read that correctly, these will be 1-7".

    * - If you're interested in another configuration/length/caliber/etc from Lilja, just let me know. We're a full line Lilja dealer and can get anything in their catalog for you and likely save you a little money in the process.
    Last edited by rebby; 01-07-2021, 04:40 AM. Reason: Updated numbers (1/6)
  • D.Davis
    Warrior
    • Sep 2013
    • 150

    #2
    I am interested. AR740 20".
    Last edited by D.Davis; 06-19-2020, 10:11 PM. Reason: profile/twist

    Comment

    • grayfox
      Chieftain
      • Jan 2017
      • 4306

      #3
      I am definitely interested!!! I currently have a 6.5G model 740 in 20" I got straight from them, and love it.

      I would vote for the 1:7 (or 1:7.5) as it looks like that's where the new boys are going with this cal.
      And a 20" barrel, RLGS (one mfr for some reason is using R+1 for their 18-20" bbls). I'd guess I would use an AGB if this makes it a bit over-gassed; keeps the gas tube std.
      Threaded 5/8-24. SS is great, nitriding not needed for me.

      The 740 shape works fine for me. Any reasonable approx. to that profile is also ok, I don't need fluting.
      If (for some crazy reason) you settle on an 18" well then, I'm still interested but 20" is my pref. I don't think I want to go down to a 16-er however.

      By my calc's a 20" should throw the 103-105's out around 2700 ft/s MV, which is a great MV IMO and very useable.
      "Down the floor, out the door, Go Brandon Go!!!!!"

      Comment

      • A5BLASTER
        Chieftain
        • Mar 2015
        • 6192

        #4
        I'm most interested in a super light weight profiled 12 inch. No routing profiled super thin to bring the weight down.

        7.5 twist is fine for my needs.

        Threaded 5/8x24

        Comment

        • Silverjay
          Bloodstained
          • Jul 2017
          • 50

          #5

          Comment

          • grayfox
            Chieftain
            • Jan 2017
            • 4306

            #6
            Rebby make sure to talk with Lilja on the gas tube lengths. The latest scoop is Odin has 18" and 21" barrels but using a rifle+2 (and AGB), so the longer tube is part of their deal.
            "Down the floor, out the door, Go Brandon Go!!!!!"

            Comment

            • StoneHendge
              Chieftain
              • May 2016
              • 2013

              #7
              Originally posted by grayfox View Post
              Rebby make sure to talk with Lilja on the gas tube lengths. The latest scoop is Odin has 18" and 21" barrels but using a rifle+2 (and AGB), so the longer tube is part of their deal.
              What Grayfox said. Proof who has been in this from the start and provides the military barrels has the 18" barrel is R+1. I would think at least R+2 for a 22.
              Let's go Brandon!

              Comment

              • Smittyb
                Unwashed
                • Apr 2020
                • 10

                #8
                Originally posted by grayfox View Post
                Rebby make sure to talk with Lilja on the gas tube lengths. The latest scoop is Odin has 18" and 21" barrels but using a rifle+2 (and AGB), so the longer tube is part of their deal.
                Originally posted by StoneHendge View Post
                What Grayfox said. Proof who has been in this from the start and provides the military barrels has the 18" barrel is R+1. I would think at least R+2 for a 22.
                Yep

                Comment

                • rebby
                  Warrior
                  • Mar 2017
                  • 302

                  #9
                  Thanks for the heads up here on the gas tubes. I saw mention of that a few times in the little bit of research that I've been able to do today. Has anybody seen any specifics on why their going w/longer gas systems? Other than the fact that some are, I haven't seen any indications as to why. I might give Hornady a call about this very topic tomorrow.

                  Comment

                  • StoneHendge
                    Chieftain
                    • May 2016
                    • 2013

                    #10
                    Originally posted by rebby View Post
                    Thanks for the heads up here on the gas tubes. I saw mention of that a few times in the little bit of research that I've been able to do today. Has anybody seen any specifics on why their going w/longer gas systems? Other than the fact that some are, I haven't seen any indications as to why. I might give Hornady a call about this very topic tomorrow.
                    I'd call Proof too. I found them extremely helpful when I built my 6.5 Creedmore. My 243 LBC is an 18" with an MLGS and the gas hits the bolt early with 95s at 2750. I've broken an extractor and I get extractor marks. They aren't from pressure. The load is not aggressive given 6mm PPC and 6mm Rem Bench data. No marks during development (they developed later) and they go away when I shut the gas off (and yes - I'm looking forward to seeing Hornady load data!) I'd also note that a lot of manufacturers do an R+2 with a 22" 6 Creed and Proof does an R+3 with it. Yes different platform with more gas and higher pressure, but heavier BCG. But 6 ARC will have a tad more dwell time due to lower velocity. On the flip side, the military probably isn't using an AGB, but an AGB doesn't really solve timing, it just lowers the amount of abuse. (BFT - you need a 6 ARC forum or at least a section!
                    Let's go Brandon!

                    Comment

                    • grayfox
                      Chieftain
                      • Jan 2017
                      • 4306

                      #11
                      One possibility just occurred to me, if the 6Arc uses slower powders than the Grr, would this have an impact on why the gas length might be longer? Think I recall seeing H4895, Varget, RL15 commonly in other 6-grendel wildcats... maybe the pressure curve of these powders means you need the longer gas length. Just thinking...
                      "Down the floor, out the door, Go Brandon Go!!!!!"

                      Comment

                      • kmon
                        Chieftain
                        • Feb 2015
                        • 2096

                        #12
                        Smaller bore gets smaller expansion ratio and pressure reduction to the chamber/barrel not having as much capacity. It is not much but the cylinder of the barrel has less room for pressure to expand when the pipe is smaller. The smaller the hole in the barrel the less room the gasses have to expand in at any given point in the barrel.

                        Don't want to calculate it out but the smaller the bore diameter the less room there is for the expanding gas at any point along the barrel. Compound that with lower expansion ratio barrels will generally get better velocity with slower burning powders and that also increases pressures at X distance down the barrel.

                        HIGHER PRESSURE at the gas block means more gas in the gas system, It would not surprise me to see data for the 6mmARC with powders like 65STAball powder or other powders deemed too slow for the Grendel which will also increase pressure at the Gasport. A couple ways to handle this is put the gas block further down the barrel with a longer gas tube or a smaller port and or an adjustable gas block
                        Last edited by kmon; 06-05-2020, 04:17 PM.

                        Comment

                        • grayfox
                          Chieftain
                          • Jan 2017
                          • 4306

                          #13
                          Couple of weeks ago I sent an email over to Lilja on whether they were going to do any 6mm ARC barrels. I lost his reply for a bit but re-found it. And responded again to his comments, in particular I asked about the thinking on gas lengths, whether going long or using standard...
                          Anyway he wrote me this morning saying there's a customer of his who's maybe going to get a group buy going, sounds like you Rebby?

                          Here is the email from this morning...
                          So looks like they might be willing.
                          Rebby looks like he's waiting to hear back from you...


                          "Down the floor, out the door, Go Brandon Go!!!!!"

                          Comment

                          • rebby
                            Warrior
                            • Mar 2017
                            • 302

                            #14
                            Originally posted by grayfox View Post
                            Couple of weeks ago I sent an email over to Lilja on whether they were going to do any 6mm ARC barrels. I lost his reply for a bit but re-found it. And responded again to his comments, in particular I asked about the thinking on gas lengths, whether going long or using standard...
                            Anyway he wrote me this morning saying there's a customer of his who's maybe going to get a group buy going, sounds like you Rebby?

                            Here is the email from this morning...
                            So looks like they might be willing.
                            Rebby looks like he's waiting to hear back from you...


                            Yep, that's me. We've been having a little back and forth on the gas length. That's the final detail that we're trying to get nailed down before putting them into production. Although these are to be an initial run with some possible tweaks for any subsequent runs, we really want to get it right the first time. For obvious reasons, Hornady might be the best resource on this (at least at the moment). I'm hoping to have a little free time tomorrow to get one of their engineers on the phone.

                            Comment

                            • grayfox
                              Chieftain
                              • Jan 2017
                              • 4306

                              #15
                              Lrrpf52 knows one of the Hornady guys,
                              see the post in the M&LE section:
                              http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?22267-6mmARC-Military-Application/page2

                              "Hornady isn't going to take a cartridge to the market and claim it was for a DoD unit if it wasn't true. Tom Beckstrand made a video talking about all of this recently. He used to be A Co Commander in 3-325 AIR when I was there before he went SF, and we've talked at-length at SHOT over dinner regarding certain things in the market. Very knowledgeable guy with some of the best articles on optics you will ever find in the gun industry. He's a straight-shooter who doesn't get into the marketing hype campaigns you often see...."

                              Maybe he can hook you up with someone to talk to on this.


                              "Down the floor, out the door, Go Brandon Go!!!!!"

                              Comment

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