LFP Comment Thread

[Caser]

So perhaps an additional column for hunters that indicates max effective hunting range ::: I feel like 1000 Ft/lbs is the least amount of Energy that I would feel ethical in putting into an animal with the expectation of killing it instantly...

Or maybe max range to opening at least 1.25x or 1.5x caliber?

[CavityBackBullets]

Or maybe max range to opening at least 1.25x or 1.5x caliber?

The Cavity Back 118 grain will get you to 450 yards with double caliber expansion, holding near 1000 lb-ft of energy. It stays sub .7 MOA to 1000 yards as tested by PredatorDown at supersonic speeds.
I dont understand what else you gents could want in a hunting bullet. That's also capable of ringing steel to 1000+ yards.

[Klem]

The Cavity Back 118 grain...stays sub .7 MOA to 1000 yards as tested by PredatorDown at supersonic speeds.

The MOA of a group is a function of a number of variables and not just the bullet (ammunition, gun, environment, shooter and shooting platform). Many rifles, including the majority of AR' are simply not capable of sub MOA regardless of the projectile. I get that you are advertising your product and want to sing its praises but given you are erring on the side of exaggeration I feel obliged to put the reality-brakes on. No offense.

The most important issue is however...have your bullets been cryoed?

[Sticks]

....
The most important issue is however...have your bullets been cryoed?

Hoooooooo!

[CavityBackBullets]

The MOA of a group is a function of a number of variables and not just the bullet (ammunition, gun, environment, shooter and shooting platform). Many rifles, including the majority of AR' are simply not capable of sub MOA regardless of the projectile. I get that you are advertising your product and want to sing its praises but given you are erring on the side of exaggeration I feel obliged to put the reality-brakes on. No offense.

Klem, respectfully.
Many of our projectiles have the capability to stay sub .7 MOA to 1000 yards. Of course provided the shooter and their equipment are up to the task.
I go to my friends at Long Range Shooters of Utah for exactly that reason for long range testing.
I'm very sorry to hear your AR's are not capable of sub MOA performance. All of mine are, even my 7.62x39.
Our projectiles will never be the limiting factor for accuracy of someone's loads.
I personally have to be able to shoot a projectile sub MOA before I will release it to the public. In fact not just me but multiple trusted testers before a projectiles release.

Heres a 12.5in 6.8 SPC @100 yards, 2 weeks ago. 4 shots sighting in a 1x6 Vortex Strike Eagle optic, nothing special. Now if the 6.8 can do this surely many Grendels can.
I have a lot more from all the calibers we do if you would like to see them. Shot by me, from my AR's.
12.5 ARP Dialed.jpg
Heres a pic from Carpe SUS of my load from his rifle, that I personally loaded and sent him. 118 grain 6.5 MKZ at 100 yards.
118 MKZ 100 yards Carpe SUS.jpg

Our projectiles also open up at the longest distance of any LFP tested by rickOshay. You can say I'm advertising our products. However I''m stating facts I can prove. No BS involved, no offense intended.

[drykilned]

Send me some along with your load data and i will test them in my rifle!

[Caser]

The Cavity Back 118 grain will get you to 450 yards with double caliber expansion, holding near 1000 lb-ft of energy. It stays sub .7 MOA to 1000 yards as tested by PredatorDown at supersonic speeds.
I dont understand what else you gents could want in a hunting bullet. That's also capable of ringing steel to 1000+ yards.

Can you put an IR seeker in the nose?

Either way, imma buy some. Thanks for making them.

[Bigs28]

I dont understand what else you gents could want in a hunting bullet.

A lead free sub moa hunting bullet for under 40 cents a piece. Oh wait they have them. Lehigh defense 110g controlled chaos. Never used your bullets. I'm sure they are a great product. But their are less expensive options that do the same. I'm not hunting to 1k yards.

[CavityBackBullets]

A lead free sub moa hunting bullet for under 40 cents a piece. Oh wait they have them. Lehigh defense 110g controlled chaos. Never used your bullets. I'm sure they are a great product. But their are less expensive options that do the same. I'm not hunting to 1k yards.

I appreciate the different choices a shooter has. However our bullets and theirs are not the same thing.
We have 99% weight retention. A fracturing bullet is easier and cheaper to make.
There are less machining operations in the construction. Copper structure is less critical.
The performance in game is different. The wound channel is different. The associated blood trail is different.
The statement and testing about 1000 yard accuracy is to show that when the shooter does their job so will the bullet. Well beyond the hunting ranges the caliber is capable of.

Expansion at high speed and low speed (high speed is on the left)
Expanded 118gr.jpeg

User submitted group showing accuracy.
Bradley Tate 118 CB.jpg

[Bigs28]

By doing the same, I'm taking about killing the deer and hogs i shoot. Yes your bullet is designed to maintain mass. Theirs is designed to fracture. Again you probably have a good product but at the end of the day the controlled chaos does the same thing (kills the deer or hog) and i buy for 0.32 each. You asked the question what we wanted and I told you what I wanted. Again you probably have a good product but I'm achieving my results with a much less expensive bullet.

[Klem]

Klem, respectfully.
Many of our projectiles have the capability to stay sub .7 MOA to 1000 yards. Of course provided the shooter and their equipment are up to the task.
I go to my friends at Long Range Shooters of Utah for exactly that reason for long range testing.
I'm very sorry to hear your AR's are not capable of sub MOA performance. All of mine are, even my 7.62x39.
Our projectiles will never be the limiting factor for accuracy of someone's loads.
I personally have to be able to shoot a projectile sub MOA before I will release it to the public. In fact not just me but multiple trusted testers before a projectiles release.

Our projectiles also open up at the longest distance of any LFP tested by rickOshay. You can say I'm advertising our products. However I''m stating facts I can prove. No BS involved, no offense intended.

My point is, no-one can guarantee sub MOA from their bullets without all other shooting variables being equal to or better than the task. Your bullets are only one factor in final group sizes. Others are;

• Shooter
• Environment (e.g. weather, wind, mirage).
• Gun
• Shooting platform (offhand, bipod, light rested, heavy rested).
• Ammunition (powder, case, neck tension, PROJECTILE).

Implying your bullets will produce 0.7MOA is what I was concerned about. Especially in the context that many, if not most forum members use light-weight AR's with what is a relatively low velocity calibre. Sure, you can shoot a Grendel and still have it wobbling around in the sky by the time it gets to 1,000 (relative to larger cases and calibres), but you will never be competitive. My experience of shooting 1,000yards in F-Class competition over a number of years punctuates why we zero at 100 and not 200 or 300 or a 1,000...and that is wind. Even on a still day there is movement of the air body that the bullet is traversing. 0.7MOA at 100yds never translates to 0.7 at 1,000. Notwithstanding, as the bullet slows down its ability to buck the wind diminishes. The ability to group downrange represents the cross-sectional diameters of a blunderbuss, from tight at the breech to wider at the muzzle.

As for what MOA my guns are capable of is an assumption designed to discredit my input. A cheap shot that I will not dignify with a response. I get that you are sensitive about your revenue stream but be careful not to cross the line into ad hominem. Let's keep this discussion factual please.



.

[grayfox]

I'll chime in that it's probably a good bullet but too expensive for my tastes. I shoot often enough that cost is a factor. I like to shoot the bullets I'll take with me into the woods so "plinking" for me doesn't do that much, I tend to stick with my "duty-designated" rounds.
But then again I'm probably not your target market, anyway this is my $0.02 as well.
If it flies true and kills what it hits and is affordable, then I can use it. At this point I'm not really using 93 octane premium-grade bullets so to speak when 87-octane works so well.
But for those who do, good shootin' and stay safe.

[CavityBackBullets]

My point is, no-one can guarantee sub MOA from their bullets without all other shooting variables being equal to or better than the task. Your bullets are only one factor in final group sizes. Others are;

• Shooter
• Environment (e.g. weather, wind, mirage).
• Gun
• Shooting platform (offhand, bipod, light rested, heavy rested).
• Ammunition (powder, case, neck tension, PROJECTILE).

Implying your bullets will produce 0.7MOA is what I was concerned about. Especially in the context that many, if not most forum members use light-weight AR's with what is a relatively low velocity calibre. Sure, you can shoot a Grendel and still have it wobbling around in the sky by the time it gets to 1,000 (relative to larger cases and calibres), but you will never be competitive. My experience of shooting 1,000yards in F-Class competition over a number of years punctuates why we zero at 100 and not 200 or 300 or a 1,000...and that is wind. Even on a still day there is movement of the air body that the bullet is traversing. 0.7MOA at 100yds never translates to 0.7 at 1,000. Notwithstanding, as the bullet slows down its ability to buck the wind diminishes. The ability to group downrange represents the cross-sectional diameters of a blunderbuss, from tight at the breech to wider at the muzzle.

As for what MOA my guns are capable of is an assumption designed to discredit my input. A cheap shot that I will not dignify with a response. I get that you are sensitive about your revenue stream but be careful not to cross the line into ad hominem. Let's keep this discussion factual please.

"Of course provided the shooter and their equipment are up to the task."

I never stated they would turn a 2 MOA weapon into a .7 MOA weapon. Nor did I in any way elude to it.
In no way did I guarantee it, nor did I state we guarantee it. Your putting words in my mouth.
I simply said they are capable of that performance as tested by a respected member of this community.
His load at 1000 was from a 22in barrel at a low 2450 at the muzzle, at an OAL of 2.24.
The performance was also from a barrel with well over a 5000 round count and at a low velocity.
118 6.5 MKZ 1000 yards small.jpg

Its apparent though that some members here are not looking for a high performance product such as ours, or Cutting Edge or Warner Tool (which are more expansive).
As well this is good to know. I certainly do not want to focus where there is no market.
By producing LFP projectiles that could be loaded to SAAMI lengths in a 118gr that perform at Grendel speeds I thought we were bringing something to the table that would help the community. I guess I was mistaken.
My apologies for wasting your time.

[Drillboss]

The Cavity Back 118 grain will get you to 450 yards with double caliber expansion, holding near 1000 lb-ft of energy. It stays sub .7 MOA to 1000 yards as tested by PredatorDown at supersonic speeds.
I dont understand what else you gents could want in a hunting bullet. That's also capable of ringing steel to 1000+ yards.

Having dealt with a lot of vendors for a lot of products and services over a lot of years, the sales pitch (and I'm paraphrasing) of "Why aren't you smart enough to understand that this is what you need?" has never done much for me. And I never responded very well to "You get what you pay for." as a justification for the price.

[CavityBackBullets]

Having dealt with a lot of vendors for a lot of products and services over a lot of years, the sales pitch (and I'm paraphrasing) of "Why aren't you smart enough to understand that this is what you need?" has never done much for me. And I never responded very well to "You get what you pay for." as a justification for the price.

Neither thing did I say or imply.
I'm at a loss for the hostilities I'm getting from a few of you that are reading way more into it than I stated.

If you like our projectiles and see the value in them try them out. If you dont I wouldnt expect you to.