New Marine Corps weapon to replace SAW

[LRRPF52]

Let's keep it on track, if you really want to for the USMC SAW replacement.

Pistol discussions would require another thread, which we've done before.

My position on it is that pistols are about useless in legacy chamberings, other than Stateside MP work, for some investigators, and very limited applications in the SOF side.

A small PDW that is as close to a pistol, but has extendable stock capability, with a more potent cartridge makes sense for those who have primary duties that require them to employ a more important weapon system or device.

[stanc]

No one has ever claimed that the M27 link would work if you just took a pair of pliers to them.

Of course the links need to be designed specifically for the Grendel.

The only reason that it hasn't been done is that there is no business justification for doing the work.

I understand that getting links developed and manufactured would require a whole lot more $$$ than any small business would willingly invest purely on speculation.

However, the profit motive does not apply to private individuals for whom shooting is only a hobby, although it's unlikely that any are wealthy enough to afford to undertake such a project.

Still, with all the Grendel enthusiasts who have spent beaucoup bucks building 6.5 G rifles over the last 10+ years, some of whom are ardent proponents of the cartridge for military use, it seems like at least one or two of them would've either:

a. Grendelized an M249/Mk46 LMG, using RPD belts (or possibly M68 links).
b. Grendelized an M27 IAR (or built a comparable IAR on another platform).

I mean, if Cris Murray can do it to demonstrate the military potential of the 7mm UIAC, surely there are Horde members who can do the same with 6.5 Grendel?

[Mike Wood]

What is this thread even about? Ammo, pistols, some new USMC weapon, ammo links, yada yada yada...geez

[VASCAR2]

If anyone develops a linked disintegrating belt light machine gun in 6.5 Grendel the chances are Serbia will have at least explored the concept seeing how they are adopting the 6.5 Grendel for their military. I'd be surprised if Prvi Partizan isn't involed in testing the 6.5 Grendel in a light machine gun.

[dobrodan]

Even if the belt is not disintegrating, there are no law that says the belt can only be divided into 50rd sections. 10rd sections is possible, and would not be bothersome at all.

[ahillock]

If you want to save weight, leave the pistol at home...

Keep the pistol, if you are ever in a fight and your rifle magazine runs dry....."The fastest reload is transition to secondary weapon."

[dobrodan]

Keep the pistol, if you are ever in a fight and your rifle magazine runs dry....."The fastest reload is transition to secondary weapon."

[cory]

Oh of course, why didn't we think about this? Because it's completely unrealistic! Even for the most experienced operators, mags will run dry if they find themselves in an intense firefight.

Back in my day I could change a mag in well under a second. Whether it's quicker to draw a pistol than reload a mag I'll give you is arguable at least to some degree. However, what is not arguable is how much quicker it is to pull a pistol as opposed to correct a failure to function of your rifle.

... Sure, there are situations where pistols are very nice to have, but not often, unless you do FIBUA or other stunts, which I suspect will be rarer and rarer. (Micro-drones will propably take care of those situations in the future)...

??? Micro-drones???

[dobrodan]

Oh of course, why didn't we think about this? Because it's completely unrealistic! Even for the most experienced operators, mags will run dry if they find themselves in an intense firefight.

Back in my day I could change a mag in well under a second. Whether it's quicker to draw a pistol than reload a mag I'll give you is arguable at least to some degree. However, what is not arguable is how much quicker it is to pull a pistol as opposed to correct a failure to function of your rifle.



??? Micro-drones???

Sure, but If you make sure you keep an almost full mag in your weapon at all times, then you are at least as prepared as you can be for that firefight.
You might run dry, or have a failure to fire, but you should usually (at least as regular infantry or recon) have somebody nearby that should be able to give immediate covering fire.

Also, if you are in such an intense firefight that you run dry, how often would a pistol save your butt? With tunnel-vision, and adrenaline coming out your ears, you would probably not be able to hit anything further away than 5m with a pistol. If you are lucky, you might distract your opponent, but most likely, you would not be able to take him or them out.

Micro-drones: http://www.proxdynamics.com/home

[ahillock]

Guess what the Marines had to do to fix the issues they have had with the M27, start using Magpul PMAGs again

Marines to Get PMAG to Fix M27 Woes with M855A1 Round

Marines are free to use the PMAG at last.

In welcome news for many a Marine (and Magpul employee), the Marine Corps has finally approved the high-performing PMAG magazine for use on the M27 Infantry Automatic Rifle, as well as the M16A4 and M4 carbines.

http://kitup.military.com/2016/12/pmag-marines-m27-m855a1-round.html

[BluntForceTrauma]

[LRRPF52]

There were earlier PMAGs that had lip cracking issues on the drop tests in -60 F.

Aluminum mags will bend.

They made some changes to address the drop test requirements and have some pretty impressive round counts with M855A1 and M3 PMAGs.

[Mike Wood]

Back in my day I could change a mag in well under a second.

Video or it didn't happen...hahaha

I love this thread. It's like a shepherds pie of info

[montana]

Guess what the Marines had to do to fix the issues they have had with the M27, start using Magpul PMAGs again

Marines to Get PMAG to Fix M27 Woes with M855A1 Round



http://kitup.military.com/2016/12/pm...5a1-round.html

The other conclusion is the P-mag is just an interim replacement for the legacy magazine. Here is the story from the Firearm blog.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/12/19/breaking-usmc-adopted-pmag-gen-m3/

[stanc]

Whether it's quicker to draw a pistol than reload a mag I'll give you is arguable at least to some degree. However, what is not arguable is how much quicker it is to pull a pistol as opposed to correct a failure to function of your rifle.

Being able to pull a pistol when your rifle malfunctions would certainly be nice during room clearing, but probably not much value during most firefights.

In any case, the point seems kinda moot. I mean, how many riflemen are even issued pistols?