Desert Tactical Arms

[Nukes]

In 3-Gun competition I loved our AUGs—until the courses of fire were aimed (pun intended) to unseat AUGs from the top rungs by forcing weak-side positions. Of course that underscores how the weak-side is its Achilles heel in the "real world" (whatever that is). That utilitarian recognition prompted me to sell 'em off.

[LRRPF52]

Biggest issue with other Bullpup designs is that when in the prone while taking cover ( if you even have cover) changing mags sucks if it takes two hands just to remove the magazine. With a single hand magazine release using either firing hand on a true ambi design, it allows you to drop the mag while you secure the fresh mag with your other hand. A cumbersome reload process often involves scooping up dirt with the fresh mag, which will shut your gun down, no matter what the design is.

Imagine your arms in the dirt, moving back and forth trying to manage insertion of a critical feed device while projectiles are zipping over your head.

For shooting with your non-dominant side, any time you need to hi-low on a RH corner, the way to expose the least amount of yourself is by holding with a left hand grip.

[Nukes]

It is easier and lower profile for me to reload a 30rd or 42 rd AUG mag prone than a 30rd AR mag prone—however shooting

[montana]

In 3-Gun competition I loved our AUGs—until the courses of fire were aimed (pun intended) to unseat AUGs from the top rungs by forcing weak-side positions. Of course that underscores how the weak-side is its Achilles heel in the "real world" (whatever that is). That utilitarian recognition prompted me to sell 'em off.

They have a solution for the left hand shooting position, not perfect but usable. Just don't stick your tongue out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VzrkOlwPD4

[Nukes]

Dang! A working solution. Hmmmm.... I have a hankering to visit the gun store.

P.S. When you said "Just don't stick your tongue out," I was worried that it was going to be a Miley Cyrus Shoots AUG Left-handed video. Very relieved to find otherwise.

[stanc]

As best I can tell, the only "real world" situation where weak-side shooting actually matters is competition. This seems to be like speed reloading -- immensely valuable in matches, but rarely practiced on the battlefield.

In the multitude of combat videos I've watched on YouTube, there was only one instance of a soldier switching his carbine to the left shoulder for firing around the corner of a building. In all other instances, the troops continued to shoot around corners from the right shoulder even though it meant exposing more of their bodies.

[stanc]

Biggest issue with other Bullpup designs is that when in the prone while taking cover ( if you even have cover) changing mags sucks if it takes two hands just to remove the magazine. With a single hand magazine release using either firing hand on a true ambi design, it allows you to drop the mag while you secure the fresh mag with your other hand. A cumbersome reload process often involves scooping up dirt with the fresh mag, which will shut your gun down, no matter what the design is.

Imagine your arms in the dirt, moving back and forth trying to manage insertion of a critical feed device while projectiles are zipping over your head.

I think you're greatly overstating the issue. I've watched videos of Aussie, Brit, and other bullpup-armed soldiers doing combat mag changes in the prone position, but don't recall any showing such problems as you describe.

[montana]

Dang! A working solution. Hmmmm.... I have a hankering to visit the gun store.

P.S. When you said "Just don't stick your tongue out," I was worried that it was going to be a Miley Cyrus Shoots AUG Left-handed video. Very relieved to find otherwise.

Thanks, now I will have nightmares tonight with that image in my mind!

[LRRPF52]

As best I can tell, the only "real world" situation where weak-side shooting actually matters is competition. This seems to be like speed reloading -- immensely valuable in matches, but rarely practiced on the battlefield.

In the multitude of combat videos I've watched on YouTube, there was only one instance of a soldier switching his carbine to the left shoulder for firing around the corner of a building. In all other instances, the troops continued to shoot around corners from the right shoulder even though it meant exposing more of their bodies.

Correct, like good marksmanship, shooting around a RH corner is rarely practiced by most soldiers, since they have never been trained to do it, just like they have never been trained to hit targets from anything other than the severely dumbed down Train Fire system from the foxhole supported, or prone unsupported positions. Usually, they are just making do with whatever improvisation comes to them at the moment.

I've trained with both techniques, so I have both tools in the box.

I think you're greatly overstating the issue. I've watched videos of Aussie, Brit, and other bullpup-armed soldiers doing combat mag changes in the prone position, but don't recall any showing such problems as you describe.

I've done it for real. It's a legitimate consideration. Mitigating debris, especially dirt, is important for a combatant while dealing with the feed system of a mechanical device. I do like that bullpups keep the mag well close to your body, so you just rotate the weapon over 90 degrees and insert the mag close to your body, whereas a traditional mag well and weapon with any weight to the front is often difficult to lift up while changing mags in the prone, especially with an underslung grenade launcher attached.

The point is that it is easier if you can drop the mag with your firing hand as you reach for the fresh mag. You're going to get it done with the weapon you have, but any added advantage helps.

I have drafted out some bullpup designs over the years, and they all have magazine change and bolt catch features that can be operated by the firing hand while holding the pistol grip. The biggest area that always proved problematic for me was ejection. DTA seems to have found a very promising solution to that, that is rather simple.

[SHORT-N-SASSY]

Great info. I don't have any experience with bullpup, but I believe some use electrical systems in their triggers, correct? . . .

cory,

Correct! Though rare, electronically-actuated trigger-to-sear systems for Bullpup rifles, a viable alternative to mechanically-actuated systems --- at least, in some sport/target applications --- in fact, do exist

http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?68636-electronic-trigger-system

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=317395

And, on this non-autoloading design, a consistent one-and-one-half-ounce trigger pull --- sweet ecstacy!
http://tinypic.com/r/16ht4z6/5

[Bigfoot]

Paintball guns use battery powered trigger/sears. Some with rocking triggers for legal full auto rate of fire.

[cory]

Paintball guns use battery powered trigger/sears. Some with rocking triggers for legal full auto rate of fire.

Ohh you just gone and done it Bigfoot. Now the ATF will "invest" billions of taxpayer dollars confiscating these dangerous trigger groups that could obviously be dropped into an AR, giving them full auto capabilities.

That was our dirty little secret until you let the cat out the bag.

[Bigfoot]

Mea culpa..

KelTec released info on their new bullpups. Looks to me like the first bullpups like the AUG set the pattern of 14-15" LOPs and everbody is following it. KelTec did it too by using bottom ejection behind the mag. Sheesh.

No word on the 65G chambering. http://www.thektog.org/entries/Confi...43-Rifles.html

They could've had a winner. I have a SU-16 w the 20" barrel and if I ever finish this bullpup shell it will have a 13.5" LOP including a 1/2" recoil pad. The barrel screws out and headspaces on a lock nut like a Savage rifle so it can be rebarreled in 65G. I know of one that went to 6.8.

[SHORT-N-SASSY]

I'm excited to see the Grendel offered in the MDR. It looks like this could be the answer to the need for an AR12 for the Grendel. That is if they utilize the .308 components for the Grendel.

The all-new Desert Tech MDR: a compact AR12 16"-barreled Bullpup!

Taking advantage of the 2.850"-long magazine and beefy (read: Bolt Gun) .308 Breech --- and given the short 16"-barrel length --- what muzzle velocities can we expect from the following 6.5mm cartridges, loaded with 139-grain to 140-grain projectiles:

6.5mm Grendel - 2500 fps (approximate extrapolated velocity based on the 2650 - 2700 fps with the 139-grain Lapua Scenar from a 6.5 Grendel CZ527 bolt-action rifle, with a 22" barrel);

6.5x45mm - ?

6.5x47mm Lapua - ?

6.5mm Creedmoor - 2578 fps ("139-grain Lapua Scenar" Short Barrel 6.5mm Rifle http://www.sincityprecision.com/?p=1503);

.260 Remington - 2575 fps (approximate, based on the "2558 fps, with 140-grain Hornady, from a 16"-barreled Ruger Compact in .260 Remington" http://www.shootersforum.com/ballist...allistics.html NOTE: See Reply #7).

In short: what 6.5mm cartridge works best, in a 16"-barreled AR12?

[SHORT-N-SASSY]

Takes standard 5.56 mags and sr25 308 mags
Calibers; .223rem 300blk 6.8spc 7.62x39 308win

pricing MDR=C .223 $2157
MDR .308 $2450

Which Caliber Do You Want This In? (Desert Tech MDR Poll started three days ago, on The Bullpup Forum)

308 - 44.4%
223/5.56 - 16.7%
300 Blackout - 5.6%
7.62x39 - 8.3%
6.8 SPC - 0%
6.5 Grendel - 19.4%
260 - 2.8%
Other - 2.8%

Combined with its other attributes, I believe the 6.5 Grendel would garner more votes, if the lower-cost 6.5 Grendel Steel Case ammo was already available.