About Wolf 100gr performance and its practical use

[VASCAR2]

I thought I would bring this old thread back up after reading a post from Bill Alexander on Sniper’s hide forum. I copied the following post which I found interesting concerning Wolf Steel cased 6.5 Grendel ammo.

“Barnaul cartridge who produces the steel case ammunition for Wolf has recently changed the gauge rings for the projectile production to increase the projectile diameter. Previously they had manufactured it per Russian military so excessive production die wear and variations in a fleet of barrels would not create problems other than a distribution of accuracy.

The heavy jackets used in military ammunition tend to find best accuracy in a traditional rifling form that engraves aggressively. Target barrels with canted transition between land and groove do less well and fouling becomes a problem.

This said, I am intrigued by the findings seen when shooting ELR with solid machined projectiles. Gas blow by seems more of a potential problem and a rifling form that seals the projectile well is counter to that which works with jacketed projectiles.”

[A5BLASTER]

I thought I would bring this old thread back up after reading a post from Bill Alexander on Sniper’s hide forum. I copied the following post which I found interesting concerning Wolf Steel cased 6.5 Grendel ammo.

“Barnaul cartridge who produces the steel case ammunition for Wolf has recently changed the gauge rings for the projectile production to increase the projectile diameter. Previously they had manufactured it per Russian military so excessive production die wear and variations in a fleet of barrels would not create problems other than a distribution of accuracy.

The heavy jackets used in military ammunition tend to find best accuracy in a traditional rifling form that engraves aggressively. Target barrels with canted transition between land and groove do less well and fouling becomes a problem.

This said, I am intrigued by the findings seen when shooting ELR with solid machined projectiles. Gas blow by seems more of a potential problem and a rifling form that seals the projectile well is counter to that which works with jacketed projectiles.”

Vascar. How old is that post from Bill? Is it something recent? Like the last year or so, or much older.

[lazyengineer]

Interesting. All I can say is my Grendel seems to shoot 2018/2019 production Wolf Steel pretty decent. 2 MOA range. Heck, I thought the 0.002 smaller diameter was by design, for erosion control of the steel jacket or somesuch. Not sure what the Russian Military has to do with it - they don't use 6.5 anything, as far as I'm aware. Or maybe that was just philosophy of design, is what he meant.

For a bimetal jacket low cost bullet, with a hollow internal tip, I'm kind of doubtful they can really get this any tighter, but look forward to seeing the reports when the new lots come out. I wonder if they will change the SKU or anything. I hate it when they make changes, but don't change anything to designate the change. Would love it if they went to 101 gr bullets or something, so you'd at least know which you have.

[Kswhitetails]

I've found that the wolf steel performs as well as I do most days out. I see a bit more dispersion, but I would say that of 90% of those shots, it's more my fault than the bullet's. I see nothing I would steer folks away from on the steel stuff accept the dents in the deflector are definitely more pronounced, if you're worried about your weapons finish, don't use the steel.

[BluntForceTrauma]

Not sure what the Russian Military has to do with it - they don't use 6.5 anything, as far as I'm aware.

The Barnaul ammunition plant in Russia makes the 6.5 Grendel steel-cased ammo that Wolf imports here into the U.S. The Barnaul plant is owned by the Russian government similar to how the U.S. Lake City ammunition plant is connected to the U.S. government. It's as if Lake City were making 6.5 Grendel ammunition! At any rate, anything that happens in the Barnaul plant is under the purview of the Russian military establishment manufacturing procedures — that's the connection.

[VASCAR2]

Vascar. How old is that post from Bill? Is it something recent? Like the last year or so, or much older.

April 21, 2019. Here is a link.

https://forum.snipershide.com/threads/6-5-grendel-more-or-less-dead.6912135/page-4

[A5BLASTER]

April 21, 2019. Here is a link.

https://forum.snipershide.com/thread...6912135/page-4

Thank you for that sir.

[Kswhitetails]

Read it. Laughed at the comments about the Grendel guys being fanboys. Okay. But wait, the 6.8SPC pushes lower BC bullets 200 fps faster at the muzzle, and you can over pressure them to make 3100 with the light bullets! GRENDEL SUCKS, THEIR FAN BASE IS RUINING THE WORLD.

SMH, Who out there is saying 6.8 won't get the job done? This is stupid, as any GUN pushing lead 2500 fps at the muzzle will get the job done. Hell, my dad uses his Ruger Super Blackhawk to hunt inside 200 yards with great success - and that pushes a huge hunk at the super slow pace of 1170FPS...

Also, can anyone (self inspection here guys) point me to a thread where anyone says they can and do hunt with their Grendel out to 650? I'd like to read that for context... I can't find one. I remember reading about 400yards, but 650... hmmm sounds exaggerated to me.

This debate is pointless, and detrimental. There are realities for any cartridge/rifle. Pick what you want and put it to work. Stop comparing pinky sizes...

ALSO -

Read Bill's post. Re-read it. For the life of me I can't decide if Bill was saying that the Russian military production schedules lead to the die rings getting worn down so they want smaller dies to ensure the produced bullets stay under-max for longer production runs, or that the ruskies just don't care about accuracy as much. I'm stupid, can someone help me out?

[FRB6.5]

Read it. Laughed at the comments about the Grendel guys being fanboys. Okay. But wait, the 6.8SPC pushes lower BC bullets 200 fps faster at the muzzle, and you can over pressure them to make 3100 with the light bullets! GRENDEL SUCKS, THEIR FAN BASE IS RUINING THE WORLD.

SMH, Who out there is saying 6.8 won't get the job done? This is stupid, as any GUN pushing lead 2500 fps at the muzzle will get the job done. Hell, my dad uses his Ruger Super Blackhawk to hunt inside 200 yards with great success - and that pushes a huge hunk at the super slow pace of 1170FPS...

Also, can anyone (self inspection here guys) point me to a thread where anyone says they can and do hunt with their Grendel out to 650? I'd like to read that for context... I can't find one. I remember reading about 400yards, but 650... hmmm sounds exaggerated to me.

This debate is pointless, and detrimental. There are realities for any cartridge/rifle. Pick what you want and put it to work. Stop comparing pinky sizes...

ALSO -

Read Bill's post. Re-read it. For the life of me I can't decide if Bill was saying that the Russian military production schedules lead to the die rings getting worn down so they want smaller dies to ensure the produced bullets stay under-max for longer production runs, or that the ruskies just don't care about accuracy as much. I'm stupid, can someone help me out?

I think the hunting range stuff are two different LaRue outings that are conflated into one story. In 2008 Mark killed an elk at 405 yards with a 6.5 Grendel (prior to their offering them). In 2012 his daughter killed two elk at 462 and 652 yards with a 14.5" pin and weld PredatOBR 7.62.

As to Bill's post it reads to me that the original sizers were intentionally undersized to allow a longer production lifespan as the dies wore and gradually became larger over time.

[VASCAR2]

My interpretation, Russian military is more concerned with the life of the gauging die which sizes the bullet diameter knowing their tolerances are not as tight in rack grade issued barrels to the Troops. The Russian accept the reduced accuracy in exchange for looser tolerance and undersized bullets so as not to over pressure loose tolerance barrels.

It seems Russians accept a lower standard in relation to tolerance for ammunition and firearm components. It has been pretty much accepted that the tolerance on current western firearms are tighter than your typical Russian firearms from the Cold War. It is common for western ammunition to be loaded with more accurate and expensive components than most Russian ammo.

[Kswhitetails]

Vascar - that's how I read it too. So here's to us two dummies!

[CaptnC]

April 21, 2019. Here is a link.

https://forum.snipershide.com/thread...6912135/page-4

I need to visit that site more...they share some of my thoughts on short barreled Grendel's.

Just saying...

Thanks for the link!

[Forgottenben]

I need to visit that site more...they share some of my thoughts on short barreled Grendel's.

Just saying...

Thanks for the link!

[A5BLASTER]

Are you familiar with confirmation bias?
Did you read the part where they said 12” Grendel is better than 16” 5.56?

Don't. Just dont. Leave it alone and walk away.

[Forgottenben]

Don't. Just dont. Leave it alone and walk away.