About Wolf 100gr performance and its practical use

[CaptnC]

Are you familiar with confirmation bias?
Did you read the part where they said 12” Grendel is better than 16” 5.56?

We agree on one thing...anything beats 5.56 in any length barrel...

Oh I did laugh out loud over (well really just a little) the AOC comment...gentle men, I'm from the great state of Texas...Red state remember!

I'm not living behind enemy lines like many of you guys! Maybe that's why some of you guys get excited so easily. I'd be pretty jumpy too! LOL

Ok let's be serious again. I've been holding something back about my range trip last Friday. I didn't want to upset A5B over the performance on my "turd" 7.62x39...I need to just put a link to my post on LRMHF.

Using Hornady load data I was getting a MV (magnetospeed) of 2470fps with a 123 Hornady VMax 29.5gr of CFE-BLK. AND is shot just under MOA at 100yds...with a 16" BCA SS barrel.

Admittedly the .310 123 VMAX has a the BC of a brick (ok, maybe a brick has a better BC). I'm sure it's terrible, I've never even looked it up!

I took another 7.62x39 AR (I have three all total) with same bullet, but pushed by 31.5gr of H335 MV just under 2200fps...this load shot close to .5 MOA at 200yds.

I can tell the BC is crap because that load dropped 6" at 200yds with a clean bull zero of 100yds.

Back to the subject of 6.5 Grendel, did order a shorter barrel last Saturday. But I needed it to have a carbine length gas system. I'm aborting the idea of owning a 6.8...So I'm pulling the barrel and bolt of the Osprey piston system to replace it with my shorter 6.5 Grendel barrel.

I never cared for the 6.8 in the first place so I will give the 6.8's I just received to my son in laws...let them deal with them.

But my "turd" can out run your stubby 6.5's to the 100yd target! Honestly that's about all a 7.62x39 is good for IMO...

[Hollis]

This is a good thread because I was wondering why the Wolf ammo in my Grendel is so terrible yet the Wolf in my 7.62x39 is pretty good. Wolf has been making the steel rounds for the AK for a long time, so they must have that down pat but apparently are forcing a wrong sized bullet to work for the Grendel rounds.

Would it really be that more difficult and expensive to use the right sized bullet for the Wolf Grendel ammo? I am hoping that as the popularity of the 6.5 Grendel continues to grow, companies like Wolf and Tula and others pursue the market opportunity and make right-sized rounds in bulk at low price.

The cheap steel ammo for my 7.62x.39 allows me to enjoy that rifle much more. I'd love to be able to do the same with the Grendel. For now, I just use the Wolf for shots where I'm testing or doing something where accuracy isn't critical so as not to "waste" by Hornady Black ELD. Once I'm ready for precision, I switch to the Hornady. I get huge flyers with the Wolf. Hornady shoot great (in, yes, my BCA Grendel upper).

[Edited: I went back and found details about manufacturing of the Wolf ammo in Russia. Very interesting. I'm still hoping they find a way to make 6.5 Grendel cheap ammo that is more consistent/precise.]

[Hollis]

We agree on one thing...anything beats 5.56 in any length barrel...

I'm glad you stated your conclusion about the 5.56. I have two ARs and neither are 5.56. Except for cheaper and more abundant ammo, I really don't see the advantage of the 223/556. I was wondering if I was missing something because the employee at Academy - who was very knowledgeable - was real surprised when we were talking about my ARs when I told him I don't own a 556 AR. I really think my 7.62x39 (better than 300 blackout except suppressed/subsonic) and 6.5 Grendel (much better than 223 Wylde or regular 223/556) have me covered quite well.

[CaptnC]

If it wasn't for the bunch of 5.56 I got in an Estate Sale a couple weeks back I wouldn't own one either.

In an AR platform, the 6.5 Grendel is King regardless what length barrel you choose to use! The 7.62x39 is next, but mainly because of the cheap ammo. I've shot a ton of hogs, deer and Blackbuck antelope with Wolf HP ammo in 7.62x39. So I know it works. In last last month I started reloading for it, now it's even better!

https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/caliber-choice-piston-system.219862/page-4#post-1634018

Go to page 4 for the details and pictures of the range day last Friday with the 7.62x39...

[CaptnC]

One more thing I keep forgetting...the next range trip I need to take my 7.62x39 so I run some of the Bear 123gr HP...IIRC...the bullets are...bi-metal...or something like that...I have several cases in storage incase it's ever needed.

But anyway I need to run some of it over my Magnetospeed to how fast it is running. It worked very well on medium size game.

[Hollis]

If it wasn't for the bunch of 5.56 I got in an Estate Sale a couple weeks back I wouldn't own one either.

In an AR platform, the 6.5 Grendel is King regardless what length barrel you choose to use! The 7.62x39 is next, but mainly because of the cheap ammo. I've shot a ton of hogs, deer and Blackbuck antelope with Wolf HP ammo in 7.62x39. So I know it works. In last last month I started reloading for it, now it's even better!

https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/caliber-choice-piston-system.219862/page-4#post-1634018

Go to page 4 for the details and pictures of the range day last Friday with the 7.62x39...

Very nice! You make me feel really good about my choices of AR.

I recognize the pics at ASC. I wonder if we've ever crossed paths there. I'll be looking for you equipment the next time I'm out there.

[Jeepster18_88]

I don't normally expect much accuracy from the cheap Russian ammo but in both of my Grendels, it only shoots slightly worse than the ELD-M load. It shoots MUCH MUCH BETTER than the SST load. Too bad it doesn't have a soft point bullet.

One reason for the wolf shooting really well in the 7.62x39 and mediocre in the Grendel is the fact that most 7.62x39s, such as the AK and SKS, have .310-.312 barrels and most AR barrels are .308. The bullet is forced down to the size of the barrel creating a very tight seal in the 7.62x39 because the bullet is too big. The Grendel bullets being undersized don't seal as well which decreases both accuracy and velocity.

On a side note, the flying brick bullets out of the 7.62x39 don't really drop much more than the Grendel inside of 200 yards when used out of the shorter barrels. Long barrels in the Grendel increase the velocity but it still doesn't change much inside of 200 yards. BC for the 123 gr .310 SST is .295 where the SST for the Grendel is .510.

[CaptnC]

Jeep, I will have to run the numbers on it...but that still seems like a lot .295 to .510...

The .310 123gr bullet is ugly! Short fat little guy...lol

Oh Jeep...speaking of Jeep we are attending a Jeep rally on Bolivar Island. So no range time this weekend. The wife's pride and joy is her 2018 Wrangler Sport. I've already lifted it, nerf style running boards...big tires and custom rims...I had a custom sticker made for the sides of the hood. "WILLYS"

https://www.bolivarpeninsulatexas.com/Event-2019-5-15-Jeep-Weekend-Crystal-Beach-Texas

[Jeepster18_88]

CaptnC, numerically it's a huge difference but at short range it doesn't change much. Velocity from the 16" Grendel and the 7.62x39 is pretty much the same depending on the particular barrel and load of each. Put them both at 2450 fps and have a 100 yard sight in. The 6.5 will drop 4.2" and the 7.62x39 will drop 4.9". The 6.5 is traveling faster so it has less wind drift and carries more energy so if you increase the distance it starts making more and more difference. For hunting purposes inside of 200 yards, there's nothing that I would shoot with the Grendel that I wouldn't shoot with the 7.62x39. I've dropped every single hog that I've shot with the 7.62x39 with the SST and behind the shoulder shots. Even made a double blowing through the spine of the first and hitting the big boar just behind the shoulder into the lungs.

I'm not saying that the Grendel doesn't offer any advantage but it's hard to improve on 100% perfect performance. Long barrels and long distances are where the difference will be noticable. The high costs of reloading components and spotty quality of the low cost barrels in the Grendel make the 7.62x39 a better choice IMO for a budget build for short range hunting of deer and hogs. Add in the fact that cheap steel cased SP ammo is available and accurate and it makes it an even better choice for a really low budget. The downside is that there isn't much option for high end ammo.

As for the Jeep Rally, I know several people that go but I've missed it every year. I sold my last Jeep over the winter and even though I'm home, I'll be missing this one too. I had a lot of fun on Crystal Beach as a teen. Sounds like a a great time and hope y'all enjoy it.

[10mm hammer]

I’m surprised no one has mentioned this, It’s obvious why wolf is inaccurate. Look at a box of rounds under a magnifying glass. There are metal shavings all around the bullet where it meets the case mouth. this is caused by the loading process. Crimping the case while the bullet is still being seated or no bevel/to tight case mouth as bullet is being seated. I had one round look like a flower with petals all around it and I could see it with just reading glasses. Sometimes when hand loading for accuracy I take an extra step and seat all bullets to depth and then back out bullet seater and crimp only in a separate step. All those steel shavings go somewhere, up the gas port? lay in the barrel till the next round crashes over over them? Once I figured that out I sold the rest and will never shoot wolf again until they load them correctly. Also seems to be a Barnul issue with other calibers as well. Haven’t noticed it with Tula of wich I shoot bunches of. Comments?

[A5BLASTER]

I’m surprised no one has mentioned this, It’s obvious why wolf is inaccurate. Look at a box of rounds under a magnifying glass. There are metal shavings all around the bullet where it meets the case mouth. this is caused by the loading process. Crimping the case while the bullet is still being seated or no bevel/to tight case mouth as bullet is being seated. I had one round look like a flower with petals all around it and I could see it with just reading glasses. Sometimes when hand loading for accuracy I take an extra step and seat all bullets to depth and then back out bullet seater and crimp only in a separate step. All those steel shavings go somewhere, up the gas port? lay in the barrel till the next round crashes over over them? Once I figured that out I sold the rest and will never shoot wolf again until they load them correctly. Also seems to be a Barnul issue with other calibers as well. Haven’t noticed it with Tula of wich I shoot bunches of. Comments?

More for me too shoot and enjoy at the range.

[10mm hammer]

So you are comfortable with small metal shavings in your bore?

[lazyengineer]

So you are comfortable with small metal shavings in your bore?

Eh, most of my metal shavings tend to exit the bore at around 2-3X the speed of sound. It doesn't really bother me.

As to accuracy impact, that probably has less impact than you think. The reason Wolf Steel isn't very accurate, is because the bullet itself just isn't a performance bullet. It's a bullet designed for maximum economy. The diameter is undersized, the lead balance and distribution isn't going to be even, heck it has a hollow-tip between the lead and the tip; good luck getting a perfectly even lead distribution in there. The fact that my Grendel gets close to 2 MOA with this ammo, suites me just fine. For what it is, I think Wolf Steel is great. It's .223 cost level ammo, that I can shoot in my 6.5 Grendel. And any practical target I shoot at, if I don't hit it at 2 MOA performance; that's on me. It's not 1 MOA precision ammo at 800 yards. But for 3" steel squares at 100 yards, I hit those every shot.

[A5BLASTER]

So you are comfortable with small metal shavings in your bore?

I have shot close too 3000 rounds of the stuff through my AA 16 inch light barrel and it still shoots other factory hunting ammo just as good as when it was new and my handloads shoot just as good as when I worked them up.

So no it don't bother me. But I'm not buying this ammo in hopes of getting sub moa or moa groups out of it.

I use it for what it was designed too do cheap range plinking, short range self defense training and shtf/ home/self defense.

Someone have said it burns the barrel out faster, well I have close too 4200 rounds in total down that AA barrel with all kinds of factory and handloads and it's still going strong.

When I burns out, I will get anouther one and rebarrel and keep going.

I have yet too find any part that fits in or on a ar15 that didn't have a usable lifespan and not be meant too be a consumable part.

Others can do as they wish, me I'm going too keep shooting it.

[Forgottenben]

I have shot close too 3000 rounds of the stuff through my AA 16 inch light barrel and it still shoots other factory hunting ammo just as good as when it was new and my handloads shoot just as good as when I worked them up.

So no it don't bother me. But I'm not buying this ammo in hopes of getting sub moa or moa groups out of it.

I use it for what it was designed too do cheap range plinking, short range self defense training and shtf/ home/self defense.

Someone have said it burns the barrel out faster, well I have close too 4200 rounds in total down that AA barrel with all kinds of factory and handloads and it's still going strong.

When I burns out, I will get anouther one and rebarrel and keep going.

I have yet too find any part that fits in or on a ar15 that didn't have a usable lifespan and not be meant too be a consumable part.

Others can do as they wish, me I'm going too keep shooting it.